Trijicon sues Holosun (patent infringement)

[jpmuscle]

It would appear that you are completely clueless to the difference in manufacturing costs in first world countries like the US and Sweden and third world child labor countries with basically zero regulation like China.

Now do Nike and everyone else.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[chadbag]

So you are saying a T-2, which is a ruggedized tube of aluminum, coated optic glass, an led, a driver for the led, and a dial to adjust power to the led costs almost as much to make as a Samsung S10 with 5 freaking megapixel cameras, a processor, RAM, developed software, battery, audio capabilities, bluetooth, NFC, a touch sensitive glass screen, etc which is made in S Korea? Get real.

It is more than just the cost to manufacture. I would bet the T2 sells an order of magnitude fewer units -- maybe 2 orders of magnitude fewer. So the profit needs to be got out of fewer units, so each has to have a higher markup.

Specialty items will almost always have a much higher markup on them than mass produced consumer items since the mass produced consumer items are profitable for the company at a lot less markup due to volume.

[Adrenaline_6]

It is more than just the cost to manufacture. I would bet the T2 sells an order of magnitude fewer units -- maybe 2 orders of magnitude fewer. So the profit needs to be got out of fewer units, so each has to have a higher markup.

Specialty items will almost always have a much higher markup on them than mass produced consumer items since the mass produced consumer items are profitable for the company at a lot less markup due to volume.

I get that...but you are also not taking into account the size of the company and overhead. A smaller company doesn't have to make as much per unit or sell as many. No way to tell how much it offsets each other but it is also a factor here.

[Five_Point_Five_Six]

Now do Nike and everyone else.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Same thing applies, and I don't wear Nike.

[WickedWillis]

Well, it doesn’t look like it addressed his point about China. This thread is useless and getting more useless.

Nobody is adding anything here’s what we have:

Group 1 says Hollerson is da best cuz muh solar! Trijicon sucks!

Group 2 says don’t buy anything from China.

Group 3 says avoid Chinese stuff when there is an alternative, don’t enrich the Chinese government which owns Holosun.

Nobody is getting anywhere.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Watch some of Aaron Cowan's videos on MRDs testing maybe, since anyone who has brought a holosun counter-point to you has been glossed over completely, other than "MuH SoLaR".

[PracticalRifleman]

Watch some of Aaron Cowan's videos on MRDs testing maybe, since anyone who has brought a holosun counter-point to you has been glossed over completely, other than "MuH SoLaR".

I’ve seen the review. It’s one of two that passed his durability testing. I just keep hearing talk of “innovation” and “features”. It doesn’t matter if it’s the best product. The Chinese government owns the company that owns Holosun. That’s enough for me to not buy them and should be for anybody that cares about the future of their country.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[grizzlyblake]

We should demand Trijicon and Aimpoint sell optics at their cost +5% pass-through. They will need to supply all original material and labor invoices showing the final price as cost +5%. Also, payment terms from the customer should be NET90.

It is not fair for them to make any more money than that. They already have plenty. They don't need more.


Sadly, this way of thinking is permeating business as more and more American companies are utilizing international procurement groups to drive down prices and put competing companies on "equal footing." I deal with this every day now and it's disgusting.

[ryanm]

Regardless of the giant pile of horse crap in this thread, there is another bottom line issue for many. The Holosun/Sig optics are much clearer when you have an astigmatism. Both aimpoint and eotech have significant halo issues for people (like me) with vision challenges. Eotech reticle bloom makes it almost unuseable. Aimpoints are triple their MOA dot size--if not more. The Holosun optics have clear, well defined reticles/dots that exhibit nearly zero bloom. I still have a couple of t2s that I use as backup sights, but for a primary I can't have my target obscured by an unclear reticle/dot. Trijicon is a totally mixed bag vs Astigmatism. I still use ACOGs because of the etched reticles, but their RDS is same boat as the other "top tier" brands.

[WickedWillis]

I’ve seen the review. It’s one of two that passed his durability testing. I just keep hearing talk of “innovation” and “features”. It doesn’t matter if it’s the best product. The Chinese government owns the company that owns Holosun. That’s enough for me to not buy them and should be for anybody that cares about the future of their country.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

And if that's your principles, I respect that.

I just don't think at this point we can say that Trijicon is the only rugged, tough and reliable MRDS handgun sight out right now.

[chadbag]

I get that...but you are also not taking into account the size of the company and overhead. A smaller company doesn't have to make as much per unit or sell as many. No way to tell how much it offsets each other but it is also a factor here.

Actually, the opposite is true. Smaller companies have larger overhead (per capita). And need to sell more or have higher markup to cover their costs. This is actually basic economics. There is a reason they say "economy of scale".

Let's take a simplified example:

Company has 10 employees. They have 1 HR/Payroll (non executive) person and 1 sales person (non executive). So their HR/Payroll overhead is 10% and their sales overhead is 10%. Samsung has 309K employees, approximately. Do you think they need 30.9K people in HR/Payroll? Probably not. I don't know their number and a quick Google search doesn't help me, but I would be surprised if they had more than 5K such people running HR and/or Payroll (which is under 2% for HR and/or payroll overhead). Eventually those duties split into separate departments but when a company is small they are often part of the same department.

Now, they keep adding new employees, one at a time. They add 1 more employee. Doe they need to add another HR/Payroll person? No. So their overhead in that field is now 9%. Same with sales. Say they add 5 more employees (16 total). Do they need to add another HR/Payroll person? No. Their payroll/HR overhead is now 6.25%. They probably wouldn't need another HR/Payroll person until around 30 employees (just a guess). So at 29 employees, their HR/Payroll overhead is 3.4% and when they add the 30th employee and now have 2 people in that department the percentage drops back down to 6.67%. But they may not need to add another one to 120 employees or so (around 2.5% -- say 2.5-3.0%). Eventually they get down to that less than 2% we saw in my guess on Samsung.

Sales and marketing is similar. And even R&D is similar in that the R&D behind a device that sells 100 units and one that sells 100K units (for a similar device) is a similar fixed cost.

Here is another simplistic way of looking at it:

Let's say you have a device that costs $1 to make and you can sell two of them a year. How much markup do you need? $30k per item? That gives you a profit of $60k. What is that, 30000%?

Now let's say you have a device that costs $1 and you can sell a million of them. If you have 30% markup and can sell them for $1.30, you make $300k in profit.

Smaller companies have to sell more per capita and(/or?) have a much higher markup compared to a larger company. This is why the large grocery stores beat out the mom and pop stores. They can sell milk for a loss (or barely a profit) to get you to come buy your beer, cookies, and hot dog buns, while the mom and pop can't.