Lpvo on an Sbr is 1-4 optional?

[Twilk73]

I find it interesting that unorthodox positions and especially a VTAC barricade is the litmus test for what is considered "real world" capable? How many times are you going to have to do urban prone, roll over prone, or shoot from your back in a real world use of your gun? How many VTAC barricades are you going to have to shoot through the low angled port from in the street? I'd bet 99% of real world shooting will be done on your feet, over and around cover, or moving (which is where I can see a real -albeit small- advantage to a RDS over a LPVO...then again, unless we're talking room clearing distance, you should probably be either shooting OR moving)

Conversely, how likely is it you'll need more than 1x to PID someone shooting up a wal-mart? Or just get the extra magnification to take a precision shot?

All this is fairly theoretical for us as civilians at this point, but if you're looking to get the most out of the AR platform, for a general purpose optic where you don't know what scenario is going to require you to use it, a LPVO beats a RDS...IMO.

For a HD gun, I run a RDS btw.

Taking a shot in a threat at 50 yards or more you better have a damn good excuse. I get what you're saying I'm looking for the best of both worlds because I'm using this as a range fun and an ad rifle. I'm going to get a cheap 1-4 for my kids 22 and see what I think. By cheap I mean good enough quality that it won't sour me to the idea but not something I'll be spending a fortune on for a 22.

[markm]

IME, LPVOs just aren't as good as an RDS for typical self-defense purposes.

They pretty much suck at CQB... at least the few I've tried. You can do it, but it's awkward and makes my brain pause.

[Ironman8]

Taking a shot in a threat at 50 yards or more you better have a damn good excuse. I get what you're saying I'm looking for the best of both worlds because I'm using this as a range fun and an ad rifle. I'm going to get a cheap 1-4 for my kids 22 and see what I think. By cheap I mean good enough quality that it won't sour me to the idea but not something I'll be spending a fortune on for a 22.

I’m not discussing legal ramifications for taking a shot. That had better be hammered out in your head before you even pick up the rifle, regardless of the range of engagement. I’m only talking about the capability of the optic/platform. PID doesn’t have to mean several hundred yards. It can be an obscured target at ANY range that you can’t make out at 1x.

[grizzlyblake]

What about a red dot with magnifier?

[vicious_cb]

I’m not discussing legal ramifications for taking a shot. That had better be hammered out in your head before you even pick up the rifle, regardless of the range of engagement. I’m only talking about the capability of the optic/platform. PID doesn’t have to mean several hundred yards. It can be an obscured target at ANY range that you can’t make out at 1x.

Indeed, magnification helps you see what you need to see not to help you shoot better.

[SteveL]

I'm a big fan of an LPVO on an SBR. I'm currently running a Vortex Viper PST Gen II 1-6x on a BCM 11.5" gun and it's my go-to gun. I like it because it's handy and versatile. I shoot it in matches where I might have to shoot paper at three yards and then an 8" gong at 200-300 yards. I couldn't do that with a RDS because most of the time I can't even see the gong at that distance. Admittedly the LPVO adds some heft to the gun that it wouldn't have with a RDS but it's a tradeoff worth making IMO. Having said all that, if I had a gun whose sole purpose was HD I'd just run a RDS on it.

[Brahmzy]

I’m a big fan of the 1.5x mini ACOGs. TA44 & TA45

I find them very fast as an alternative to a straight red dot. Red dots are the fastest sight, until they aren’t. If you can’t see your target, it’s going to slow you down. I’ve had / have multiple LPVOs and while they are great for 100-300 yards, they are generally quite a bit slower for me. As in full blown heavier scope / eye box / eye relief / FOV thing slow.

All depends on what your eyes need, distance expectations, quality of optic choices and how much you’re willing to train with said optic(s).

I guess that’s why I’ve got so many stinkin’ rifles because as soon as you have one setup, you’ve made a compromise somewhere. Optics on SBRs are all about compromise. What’s the mission? Get the optic for that mission. Is access to more than one rifle realistic in x scenario or do you need to build one to try to do it all?

That’s why you see goofy things like RMRs sitting on top of 3.5x ACOGs. ACOGs are tough to beat for crystal clear, crisp, fast magnification 50 yards and beyond. There’s a reason our guys use them - they’re an amazing optic that transformed the lethality of our armed forces.
But you don’t want to be stuck @ 3.5x down your 30ft hallway inside your house. Or a fast moving target @ 50 yards.

Unfortunately, for me, I have to try n buy. That can be expensive with optics, but it’s necessary. I’ve had a TON of ‘em.
Your eyes change, too. What was great 10 years ago, isn’t as great anymore.

Couple key things to an LPVO on an SBR if you’re going to go that route is eye relief is king, along with a throw lever to quickly change magnification. Some LPVOs are so stiff and worthless without a throw lever that you have to take your eyes off the target to change magnification. All LPVOs should come with a throw lever on the scope.

My advice is to try stuff. See what makes your eyes happy. What looks good on paper can be crap for you in real-world drills. Maybe watch / participate in some 3 gun matches. It’s amazing to see what some of those guys can do with LPVOs, but, then, you’re starting to step outside of traditional SBR roles there too.

[Twilk73]

Brahmzy I've been learning all week as much as I can. Like you most times I have to buy to try. Currently looking at the leupold mark 6 1-6 and the nightforce nx8 1-8. Both have a similar eye box both are light weight. The nightforce is brighter and has 2x more. The leupold, I like the cmr retical has a bigger exit pupil. They both check important boxes and I don't need more than 6x. I'm not sure I'd even like an lpvo and considering this is an HD gun 1x is the most important.

My fix for now is I purchased a leupold vx freedom 1.5-4 lpvo for my kids 22 rifle. I'm hoping that gives me some idea of what it might be like and I got it used with an ultralight aero mount so it's a cheap trial entry.

[sidewaysil80]

Im not sure what I want but in my head I want 1x for self defense and magnification for the range plinking out to 300 yards. So im looking to try an lpvo that could serve both those purposes so I don't need two optics. I love my leupold lco but when I'm at the range shooting out at 100+ it gets daunting and less fun.

Edit, I get ffp and sfp but what I read in one post was that sfp didn't seem to be as durable?

I've never heard about ffp being more durable then sfp or vice a versa. However I'm also not a scope engineer(?) and therefore not an expert.

[Twilk73]

I've never heard about ffp being more durable then sfp or vice a versa. However I'm also not a scope engineer(?) and therefore not an expert.

I read that in one random post. The more I read and learn I don't see how one is more durable than the other so long as your compair the same quality optics. There are plenty of high end optics that are second focal plain.

My guess is the person had experience with low quality sfp lpvo's and generally ffp optics tend to be higher end because there more expensive to make because you're etching a smaller retical. His claim was he had expert with all kinds of optics and never had a quality issue with ffp but had several fail that where sfp. I was sceptical, but I didn't have enough knowledge to even know how to dispute it at the time.