Israel and United Arab Emirates Peace Treaty

[Coal Dragger]

Really curious how much of this deal between Israel and UAE was facilitated by US efforts, vs us just not stepping on our own dicks and getting in the way? It seems as if far too often US administrations want to insert their policy goals into agreements between other nations in the Middle East, violating the dictum that you shouldn’t let perfection stand in the way of good enough. Either way it’s a good start and anything that pisses in Iran or Turkeys’ Cheerios is probably a good thing.

[Grand58742]

Really curious how much of this deal between Israel and UAE was facilitated by US efforts, vs us just not stepping on our own dicks and getting in the way? It seems as if far too often US administrations want to insert their policy goals into agreements between other nations in the Middle East, violating the dictum that you shouldn’t let perfection stand in the way of good enough. Either way it’s a good start and anything that pisses in Iran or Turkeys’ Cheerios is probably a good thing.

As a reminder, the last Admin wanted to start at the 1967 borders and go from there.

There's something to be said about those who annex additional territory when they are legitimately attacked.

[yoni]

I guess my question is this- IS IT EVEN POSSIBLE to have an intelligent, truthful opinion for the average Joe about Israel and the middle East's affairs, without having been born & brought up there?
.

Here is the problem as I see it, understand I was born and raised in the USA, so once upon a time I was like most Americans. Most American are very naive about other cultures and languages. That is not a put down just a fact that comes from living behind 2 great big oceans. Countries are like people, they have a personality and also the biggest strength is also the biggest weakness. It just depends on the circumstances.

Now in Israel if a person finds themselves in certain places that person will not only learn Arabic, but also learn about Islam and Arabic culture. I am not talking 40 hours of instruction, I am talking about hundreds of hours of instruction over a career maybe thousands of hours.

It is not uncommon for these people to develop a love of Arabic literature, poetry or music. Also since Mohamed stole a lot of the ideas in Islam from the Jews of the area, Islamic ideas aren't as foreign to us. Also Arabic and Hebrew are related, not unlike Jews and Arabs. So we understand that to define a word in either language may take 3 or 4 paragraphs to do so, since the word might change it's meaning depending on how it is being used.

So when you add all of that together, with the basic facts of the world since G-D created mankind with a base nature to want things and to use power to get more things it all becomes a bit of a mess for outsiders to understand.

Lets take Israel, has we made mistakes along the way yep. But I will say our mistakes were just that for the most part, mistakes.An example of this the King David hotel, which was British military headquarters was blown up by Jews. I would say a legit military target in a war of Independence. A phone call was made to warn the British to get out of the building, it was not heeded. So a bunch of people got killed. This is just one example, we have more. Every country makes mistakes, I would say how the USA has fought the war on terror has been a huge mistake. Due to American mind set, the Bush administration thought they could force Jeffersonian democracy on A-stand and Iraq . I still don't get the war in Iraq, they had nothing to do with 9-11, and the Bush Administration was too stupid to understand if Sadaam is gone Iran will run wild.

But how many cases of pure murder and terrorism come from the other side, too many to list.

I am ad conservative as one can get, I am an Orthodox Jew that believes that G-D in the Torah gave the land to my people. He also told us if you don't do what your supposed to do I will throw you out of the land and you will wander the world, getting crapped on, before I allow you to come back to the land.

We are the only people in the history of the world, to have lost our country and then regain it after 2000 years.

So how can people that come from a culture of global isolation, step in and understand such a mess.

I am sure sometimes the Middle East feels like I have felt while working in Africa. To save my life, I have never been able to see the physical differences in Africans that result from the different tribes. But they know it. I have lined up workers from different tribes and tried to understand it, impossible for me to do.
But I guess that is ok, I just have to be aware those differences in the minds of the Africans are great enough to at times butcher each other and sell each other in slavery.

[Straight Shooter]

Here is the problem as I see it, understand I was born and raised in the USA, so once upon a time I was like most Americans. Most American are very naive about other cultures and languages. That is not a put down just a fact that comes from living behind 2 great big oceans. Countries are like people, they have a personality and also the biggest strength is also the biggest weakness. It just depends on the circumstances.

Now in Israel if a person finds themselves in certain places that person will not only learn Arabic, but also learn about Islam and Arabic culture. I am not talking 40 hours of instruction, I am talking about hundreds of hours of instruction over a career maybe thousands of hours.

It is not uncommon for these people to develop a love of Arabic literature, poetry or music. Also since Mohamed stole a lot of the ideas in Islam from the Jews of the area, Islamic ideas aren't as foreign to us. Also Arabic and Hebrew are related, not unlike Jews and Arabs. So we understand that to define a word in either language may take 3 or 4 paragraphs to do so, since the word might change it's meaning depending on how it is being used.

So when you add all of that together, with the basic facts of the world since G-D created mankind with a base nature to want things and to use power to get more things it all becomes a bit of a mess for outsiders to understand.

Lets take Israel, has we made mistakes along the way yep. But I will say our mistakes were just that for the most part, mistakes.An example of this the King David hotel, which was British military headquarters was blown up by Jews. I would say a legit military target in a war of Independence. A phone call was made to warn the British to get out of the building, it was not heeded. So a bunch of people got killed. This is just one example, we have more. Every country makes mistakes, I would say how the USA has fought the war on terror has been a huge mistake. Due to American mind set, the Bush administration thought they could force Jeffersonian democracy on A-stand and Iraq . I still don't get the war in Iraq, they had nothing to do with 9-11, and the Bush Administration was too stupid to understand if Sadaam is gone Iran will run wild.

But how many cases of pure murder and terrorism come from the other side, too many to list.

I am ad conservative as one can get, I am an Orthodox Jew that believes that G-D in the Torah gave the land to my people. He also told us if you don't do what your supposed to do I will throw you out of the land and you will wander the world, getting crapped on, before I allow you to come back to the land.

We are the only people in the history of the world, to have lost our country and then regain it after 2000 years.

So how can people that come from a culture of global isolation, step in and understand such a mess.

I am sure sometimes the Middle East feels like I have felt while working in Africa. To save my life, I have never been able to see the physical differences in Africans that result from the different tribes. But they know it. I have lined up workers from different tribes and tried to understand it, impossible for me to do.
But I guess that is ok, I just have to be aware those differences in the minds of the Africans are great enough to at times butcher each other and sell each other in slavery.

Most excellent response. I think many here dont know because they dont CARE..couldnt give a damn about "shit goin on over there since before Jesus was born", as Ive heard it said many times. I DO care.
I was blessed to have seen a good bit of the world whilst in the Marine Corps. Those sights, sounds and smells have stayed with me all these years now. Ive seen more since. People speak from pure ignorence...I have too. I know people who've never been no further than a state or two away from where they were born and they act like they are world travellers. People who've never seen an ocean...or a real mountain like the Rockies..not the Smokies...they think they know everything.
But, getting back to Israel...I just admire that country so much. I LOVE the required military service. The medical advances. The grit of a people surrounded by others who want to kill every last man, woman & child. Its where MY Lord & Master lived & walked. Id so love to go and stay awhile. But-itll never happen.
I appreciate your long response yoni- always like to hear your thoughts.

[yoni]

One more reason to not be trilled about the deal, it seems the USA will now sell F35's to UAE.

On one hand we have never fought a war with UAE. We now have a peace deal with UAE, so what is the problem?

It is hard to break a mind set, where watching potential enemies get the best war plane on the planet and not be concerned.

[fred]

Here is the problem as I see it, understand I was born and raised in the USA, so once upon a time I was like most Americans. Most American are very naive about other cultures and languages. That is not a put down just a fact that comes from living behind 2 great big oceans. Countries are like people, they have a personality and also the biggest strength is also the biggest weakness. It just depends on the circumstances.

Now in Israel if a person finds themselves in certain places that person will not only learn Arabic, but also learn about Islam and Arabic culture. I am not talking 40 hours of instruction, I am talking about hundreds of hours of instruction over a career maybe thousands of hours.

It is not uncommon for these people to develop a love of Arabic literature, poetry or music. Also since Mohamed stole a lot of the ideas in Islam from the Jews of the area, Islamic ideas aren't as foreign to us. Also Arabic and Hebrew are related, not unlike Jews and Arabs. So we understand that to define a word in either language may take 3 or 4 paragraphs to do so, since the word might change it's meaning depending on how it is being used.

So when you add all of that together, with the basic facts of the world since G-D created mankind with a base nature to want things and to use power to get more things it all becomes a bit of a mess for outsiders to understand.

Lets take Israel, has we made mistakes along the way yep. But I will say our mistakes were just that for the most part, mistakes.An example of this the King David hotel, which was British military headquarters was blown up by Jews. I would say a legit military target in a war of Independence. A phone call was made to warn the British to get out of the building, it was not heeded. So a bunch of people got killed. This is just one example, we have more. Every country makes mistakes, I would say how the USA has fought the war on terror has been a huge mistake. Due to American mind set, the Bush administration thought they could force Jeffersonian democracy on A-stand and Iraq . I still don't get the war in Iraq, they had nothing to do with 9-11, and the Bush Administration was too stupid to understand if Sadaam is gone Iran will run wild.

But how many cases of pure murder and terrorism come from the other side, too many to list.

I am ad conservative as one can get, I am an Orthodox Jew that believes that G-D in the Torah gave the land to my people. He also told us if you don't do what your supposed to do I will throw you out of the land and you will wander the world, getting crapped on, before I allow you to come back to the land.

We are the only people in the history of the world, to have lost our country and then regain it after 2000 years.

So how can people that come from a culture of global isolation, step in and understand such a mess.

I am sure sometimes the Middle East feels like I have felt while working in Africa. To save my life, I have never been able to see the physical differences in Africans that result from the different tribes. But they know it. I have lined up workers from different tribes and tried to understand it, impossible for me to do.
But I guess that is ok, I just have to be aware those differences in the minds of the Africans are great enough to at times butcher each other and sell each other in slavery.

I appreciate that response, as well as the skepticism. Peace treaties were made to be broken, after all. I just hope that it's the beginning of a realignment against Iran that can withstand what seems to be looming depression and chaos. We'll see.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

One more reason to not be trilled about the deal, it seems the USA will now sell F35's to UAE.

On one hand we have never fought a war with UAE. We now have a peace deal with UAE, so what is the problem?

It is hard to break a mind set, where watching potential enemies get the best war plane on the planet and not be concerned.

We are going to sell them F 22s? . The F 35 as a fighter plane sucks balls, as an integrated part of the air defense and offense system, it’s a pretty slick little plane. If to fully reach its potential it has to be operated in a very complex system based on intelligence and US assets, the utility is there only if they cooperate with us. At least that’s how I read it.


What I like about this treaty is that it is a reflection of the reality. Too many treaties are aspirational in that they don’t reflect the reality, but what people would rather things be. Or they are just dodges until the next war. Treaties are like morals, people hold him in high regard and is being sacrosanct , but they break them when it’s expedient.

[rjacobs]

Most American are very naive about other cultures and languages.

That sums up A LOT of the reasons we are having the domestic problems we have currently as well...

I have travelled the world and been just about everywhere except Antarctica...

I have a very different view of a lot of things vs. most of my friends who have barely left the metroplex of Dallas-Ft. Worth...

[chadbag]

One more reason to not be trilled about the deal, it seems the USA will now sell F35's to UAE.

I wonder how well those F35s will run without maintenance and spare parts etc (if the UAE breaks the wrong direction)...

Iran has kept their F14 fleet running through cannibalization etc. but an F35 is like modern times compared to the stone age F14 in terms of technology and staying in the air.

Here's to hoping the UAE stays sane and other Arab countries follow suit in making peace.

[Artos]

I still don't get the war in Iraq, they had nothing to do with 9-11, and the Bush Administration was too stupid to understand if Sadaam is gone Iran will run wild.

yoni, how is daily life compare for the people of Iraq pre / post Sadaam days & how does Israel feel about Iraq's role in the region now??