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Thread: Who has luck with cheap / Franken AR's?

  1. #1
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    Who has luck with cheap / Franken AR's?

    I sure don't.

    Last AR upper I got was a new Model 1 Sales 20 in A2 clone. Didnt cycle at all.

    Fast-forward a couple years to this week and I test a buddies brand-new PSA 10.3 upper on a proven pistol lower. Didnt cycle at all.

    I've bought a new S&W AR, built a 7.62x39 pistol, one or two other used AR's I've bought, even tried a new 2017 Mini 14 and a like-new Armalite AR180B. None of these guns ran well.

    Good mags, (NHMTG, Brownells, Pmags, Okay) good ammo, (brass Federal, PMC mostly) cleaned and lightly to moderately lubricated.

    I have an Armalite DEF10 that works well so far. I've had two BCM uppers that ran fin except for when I tried steel case ammo. (Shoulda kept those uppers)

    Otherwise every cheap kind of AR hasn't worked out for me. Yet 90% of AR's out there ARE cheap or franken rifles and the majority of owners are happy and say they work great.

    I dont get it. When I've participated in competitions the guns run great for the most part. Most of them have lots of time and money poured into them.

    Is everyone not an AR mechanic/pro builder or doesn't have a tier one AR full of crap or does hardly anyone fire their guns more than a mag or two?

    Where I work the Police had some franken guns built for them, with suppressors. Theyve had issues and the company who made them is gone. They get carried but they dont get fired much anymore. I think to boost confidence they only fire about a dozen shots in rare training to reduce malfunctions.

    I'm annoyed because its 2020 and I STILL cant trust an AR15 to work because they just dont well enough for me.

  2. #2
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    I have a M&P sport II and a few PSA builds i use as learners. We beat the crap out of them. Never had a issue besides a crappy carry handle sight wont stay zero'd on one. I also have slapped some cheap sub par kits together all ran with brass case bulk 5.56/223 ammo. I have high end ar's and $200 dollar ar's, they all work. I have about 20. Each for there own role. And they all shoot and are good out to 200 yards.

    Just a question, do you keep your ar15 lubed?

  3. #3
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    7.62x39 ARs used to have issues, especially mags. Don't know about today, never interested in them

    Stop buying or building weird franken guns with weird workarounds for weird calibers



    Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron3 View Post
    I sure don't.

    Last AR upper I got was a new Model 1 Sales 20 in A2 clone. Didnt cycle at all.

    Fast-forward a couple years to this week and I test a buddies brand-new PSA 10.3 upper on a proven pistol lower. Didnt cycle at all.

    I've bought a new S&W AR, built a 7.62x39 pistol, one or two other used AR's I've bought, even tried a new 2017 Mini 14 and a like-new Armalite AR180B. None of these guns ran well.

    Good mags, (NHMTG, Brownells, Pmags, Okay) good ammo, (brass Federal, PMC mostly) cleaned and lightly to moderately lubricated.

    I have an Armalite DEF10 that works well so far. I've had two BCM uppers that ran fin except for when I tried steel case ammo. (Shoulda kept those uppers)

    Otherwise every cheap kind of AR hasn't worked out for me. Yet 90% of AR's out there ARE cheap or franken rifles and the majority of owners are happy and say they work great.

    I dont get it. When I've participated in competitions the guns run great for the most part. Most of them have lots of time and money poured into them.

    Is everyone not an AR mechanic/pro builder or doesn't have a tier one AR full of crap or does hardly anyone fire their guns more than a mag or two?

    Where I work the Police had some franken guns built for them, with suppressors. Theyve had issues and the company who made them is gone. They get carried but they dont get fired much anymore. I think to boost confidence they only fire about a dozen shots in rare training to reduce malfunctions.

    I'm annoyed because its 2020 and I STILL cant trust an AR15 to work because they just dont well enough for me.
    I don't understand the logic of buying cheap AR's or assembling from cheap parts. There are many great choices from proven quality manufacturers and they cost within $600 of the junk Franken guns. Doesn't make sense to me to buy build cheap and have a garbage gun vs spend a little more and have quality. I have 3 quality AR's and they are almost 100% reliable... A buddy of mine just got a pistol AR from PSA and I'm curious to shoot his and compare it with my BCM pistol AR

  5. #5
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    I have purchased complete uppers by BCM, LMT, PSA. They have all run without failure, the PSA more aggressively than I liked. I have multiple 1000s of rounds through the BCM without a bobble, certainly more than 2000 through the PSA, maybe 1000 through the LMT.

    The LMT is set up as an M4 "clone" and I just don't shoot it that much.

    I have also assembled four 5.56 uppers with 11.3 - 20 inch barrels. They have run fine. I wish I could shoot them enough to find more problems or at least wear out some parts.

    The only problematic build I have is a 9mm and it's issue is based on needing a dedicated lower. My dedicated 22 lr upper is more reliable than my 10-22.

    I think the majority of inexpensive AR owners just do not shoot them enough to establish how reliable/unreliable they are and do not understand the platform well enough to troubleshoot any issues they have. They take it to their buddy who tells them their gas rings weren't aligned, not to load more than 28 in a 30 round magazine, or that the AR "shits where it eats". The owner shrugs their shoulders, puts the gun back under their bed and forgets about it.

    Andy

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devildawg2531 View Post
    I don't understand the logic of buying cheap AR's or assembling from cheap parts. There are many great choices from proven quality manufacturers and they cost within $600 of the junk Franken guns. Doesn't make sense to me to buy build cheap and have a garbage gun vs spend a little more and have quality. I have 3 quality AR's and they are almost 100% reliable... A buddy of mine just got a pistol AR from PSA and I'm curious to shoot his and compare it with my BCM pistol AR
    Are you going to train people and burn up barrels and bolts on a $1200-$2,000 ar that will last 20k rounds before a barrel and bolt change. Or would rather use a $300 dollar rifle and change the bolt at 15k rounds.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devildawg2531 View Post
    I don't understand the logic of buying cheap AR's or assembling from cheap parts. There are many great choices from proven quality manufacturers and they cost within $600 of the junk Franken guns. Doesn't make sense to me to buy build cheap and have a garbage gun vs spend a little more and have quality. I have 3 quality AR's and they are almost 100% reliable... A buddy of mine just got a pistol AR from PSA and I'm curious to shoot his and compare it with my BCM pistol AR
    I think you might be missing the DIY gene. Seriously, to me that is one of the allures of the AR - anyone with basic tools and even a little mechanical skill can build/assemble one. I've built and gifted AR's to my sons, and a couple grandsons. They all work just fine, largely because I use good parts.

    I think the fact that I ask the recipients what they want in terms of floated or FSB, length and colors make the Dad/Grandpa guns more of a family heirloom then a 'Grandpa bought me this gun' would have.

    I don't really save any money putting these together, but I feel they have performed either better than or 'just as good' as more expensive rifles - largely due to the attention I pay to the upper's components and assembly. I lap the receiver, primarily use GM barrels, Toolcraft C-153 bolts, pin the Geissele gas blocks and hit the lower end of the torque spec on the barrel nut. The results have always been reliable and more than accurate enough for hunting, training and plinking.

    I've also got a couple of PSA uppers - a stainless mid-length M4orgery which is my favorite FSB rifle to shoot, a 10.5in FSB because it looks cool, and a 8in .22LR upper that gets the shit shot out of it. The stainless mid-length is a legit 1.5-2moa rifle, shoots better than another name brand FSB carbine-length upper I have, pretty sure I paid $159 or $199 for the PSA w/o BCG.

    Just my take.
    Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the President... - Theodore Roosevelt, Lincoln and Free Speech, Metropolitan Magazine, Volume 47, Number 6, May 1918.

    Every Communist must grasp the truth. Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun. Our principle is that the Party commands the gun, and the gun must never be allowed to command the Party Mao Zedong, 6 November, 1938 - speech to the Communist Patry of China's sixth Central Committee

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by robbins290 View Post
    I have a M&P sport II and a few PSA builds i use as learners. We beat the crap out of them. Never had a issue besides a crappy carry handle sight wont stay zero'd on one. I also have slapped some cheap sub par kits together all ran with brass case bulk 5.56/223 ammo. I have high end ar's and $200 dollar ar's, they all work. I have about 20. Each for there own role. And they all shoot and are good out to 200 yards.

    Just a question, do you keep your ar15 lubed?
    See, this is what I'm talking about! 😖😄

    I used to use light grease on sliding parts, oil on other parts. Later I went to more liberal oil. Then I tried light oil. Never let them get very dirty. 300-500 rounds tops. Didnt seem to matter.

    I bought a new Mini14 that worked fine but I traded it for an older Mini14 (I wanted a blued one) and it worked. Sold it and about 2017 got a new one. Had ejection problems. Sold it to a family member. (He knew)

    I've had several AK's that worked, and a couple that didn't. (US made)

    Had M1A's and three PTR G3's that all worked.

    When I say worked I mean minimum 300 rds fired without stoppage but some had a couple thousand rounds. My first AK was around 15k.

    Oh, I have a Beretta ARX with about 800 rds with no malfunctions. The AR10 has about 600 iirc. One malfunctioned but i know what contributed to that, not that it makes it okay.
    Last edited by Ron3; 09-10-20 at 12:31.

  9. #9
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    No problems with any of the newer guys PSA uppers other than overgassed and extractor springs being immediately changed out.
    My guns all run fine as well.
    A true "Gun Guy" (or gal) should have familiarity and a modicum of proficiency with most all firearms platforms.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by robbins290 View Post
    Are you going to train people and burn up barrels and bolts on a $1200-$2,000 ar that will last 20k rounds before a barrel and bolt change. Or would rather use a $300 dollar rifle and change the bolt at 15k rounds.
    Every class I've attended everyone brought their own rifle. You train people and supply cheap rifles so they get more practice clearing FTE's?

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