Tulsa, OK, slain officer Bodycam. *NSFW* hard to watch.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

You also cannot tase after OCing someone because some OC is flammable and they will catch fire.

And the downside?

It seems to me you have to stack the pain. OC first, that persists. Then the taser. I’m guessing dealing with burning plus electrocution is pretty miserable.

[Business_Casual]

I'm really sorry you get a hard-on elevating force to lethal over any non-compliance issue. Good luck with that. I'm just not seeing the words "Judge Dredd" on the shields they currently issue police.

Bad guys walk all day around us because at the moment in time, they're didn't do nuttin. It sucks, but that's the price we have for NOT being in a police state.

The flaw in your argument is that he had done something. First he operated a vehicle on the public roads with expired tags. Next, when given a lawful command/order, he failed to comply multiple times.

[gunnerblue]

I'm really sorry you get a hard-on elevating force to lethal over any non-compliance issue. Good luck with that. I'm just not seeing the words "Judge Dredd" on the shields they currently issue police.

Bad guys walk all day around us because at the moment in time, they're didn't do nuttin. It sucks, but that's the price we have for NOT being in a police state.

Reading is fundamental. No one's advocating lethal force for any non-compliance issue. They're saying that more force was necessary in this case and others.

The bad guy in this case was not, in fact, doing "nuttin."

You don't seem to understand policies regarding use of force and/or affecting an arrest.

[OH58D]

I'm really sorry you get a hard-on elevating force to lethal over any non-compliance issue. Good luck with that. I'm just not seeing the words "Judge Dredd" on the shields they currently issue police.

Bad guys walk all day around us because at the moment in time, they're didn't do nuttin. It sucks, but that's the price we have for NOT being in a police state.

Did we watch the same video? The guy in the car elevated the situation to lethal means as part of his non-compliance.

[jsbhike]

See this is what I hate about Officers these days. Too nice or too mean. They are keep repeating themselves to someone who is not listening. Or they shoot a guy begging just to stay still like that Youre Fcked dust cover retard.

I have kind of wondered about this through the years and more so a few years back when the NYPD OIS report (think it was via Rand) where NYPD accuracy in shootings against unarmed people was around 30%, but 8% or 9% when the person was armed along with video of officers coming unglued from the start with a compliant suspect sometimes where no violation had even occurred.

[just a scout]

I’ll toss that grenade back. Ever notice how after the dust clears that 9 times out of 10 when officers ramp it up on someone that it turns out that subject was a shitstick?

And you did not read? If the taser doesn’t work then I mean...bang. You left little recourse. I don’t care about his moving violation. He’s not getting a gun in his face over that.

You gotta learn how to read people. When someone is bracing, stalling, and already have their line crossed (“I will pull over but not leave vehicle” or “You can come in my house but I’m not leaving the kitchen”), there is a reason for that and it involves the officer.

Every. Single. Time. A perp has tried to modify a stop or a scenario; it was to his advantage.

I’m sorry you think your white boy dindu nuffin. I’m sure he coaches Little League.

But it was never about the tag. It was about control over the scene and how it was going to end. On that tag bullshit, if he was so innocent he could have taken his ticket, caught a ride, cleared it up and gotten it out of impound.

If you missed that or are too much of a lolbertarian then that’s on you.

But a dead man whose last words were “What?” in total disbelief is a hell of a price to pay for treating everyone ’the same’

You understand why people riot, but not why people need a gun in the face?

Okay. Maybe you don’t really understand then.

Exactly. Thank you.


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[sundance435]

Not trying to sound callous, and I do not condone in any way what this POS did and I support law enforcement, BUT: These two officers stacked the deck against themselves. They gave the POS an "Option B" and like a wounded animal, he took it. There's very little abstract or rational thought going on in the brain at that point. Knowing the outcome, it's painful to watch the cascading series of poor judgments that culminates in one of the officers losing his life. The most painful part is the lack of really going "hands on" with the perp when they do get physical. They've tazed and peppered the guy. At that point, there's no difference on the use of force spectrum for wailing on the guy to gain compliance. Trying to pull an unwilling person out of car is not easy - you're at a physical disadvantage whether it's a full grown man or a petite woman and I've done both. This is the exact reason you do it at all costs after you've committed.

That said, policing in this day and age is surreal. I think there was room for the pendulum to swing back a bit from "militarization", but it's swung way too far in the other direction. That worries me greatly - breakdown in law & order is the first sign of serious future problems. Anecdotally, in my area, agencies are seeing a decline in applications of 50-75%. These use to be coveted jobs for the stability. Fewer qualified individuals is going to lead to a vicious circle.

[mrbieler]

Reading is fundamental. No one's advocating lethal force for any non-compliance issue. They're saying that more force was necessary in this case and others.

The bad guy in this case was not, in fact, doing "nuttin."

You don't seem to understand policies regarding use of force and/or affecting an arrest.

No, I'm fairly certain that's exactly what this previous quote implies, "You shove a gun in his face and loudly say “THERE WILL BE NO FURTHER WARNINGS” and mean it."

[marco.g]

Looking at this as a non LEO - would this be a good use case for a K9?

[Firefly]

Looking at this as a non LEO - would this be a good use case for a K9?

Not specifically, but it wouldn’t have hurt. A third officer would have definitely turned the tide.