Tulsa, OK, slain officer Bodycam. *NSFW* hard to watch.

[Averageman]

I seem to recall C cell Maglites getting better club reviews than D cell. Think the pro's were smaller grip, lighter weight, and faster speed.

Perhaps the preference for the "C" cell was that it require less lubrication to send the guy in to the Holding Cell with a built in night light?

[Firefly]

Perhaps the preference for the "C" cell was that it require less lubrication to send the guy in to the Holding Cell with a built in night light?

Don’t be ridiculous






.....that’s what mop handles are for

[joedirt199]

He lulled them in playing the passive resistance game and making them feel he wasn't a threat. That is why there was no pain compliance or strikes. When he saw them gearing up a bit, up he took it further than they were ready. Their pepper spray brand looked like shit. Very arresally and not sticky stream. Too many depts get dependant on tasers. Ours put such limiting factors in the policy that I gave the taser back to the armorer. Hard to get an effective baton strike on someone in a car. Still begs the question of how far to push something as minor as traffic offenses and an hour in jail to affect the arrest.

[mrbieler]

Still begs the question of how far to push something as minor as traffic offenses and an hour in jail to affect the arrest.

That's where I was going earlier. The threat of the taser didn't stop the clown. At that point, my question is why not call the impound truck. If the guy still won't/doesn't get out so it can be hooked up, have them boot the car, give him a ticket for failure to have license and registration and issue a summons for disorderly conduct. Get back in your squad car and move on.

[Firefly]

That's where I was going earlier. The threat of the taser didn't stop the clown. At that point, my question is why not call the impound truck. If the guy still won't/doesn't get out so it can be hooked up, have them boot the car, give him a ticket for failure to have license and registration and issue a summons for disorderly conduct. Get back in your squad car and move on.

What all you just said reminds me of:

[OH58D]

That's where I was going earlier. The threat of the taser didn't stop the clown. At that point, my question is why not call the impound truck. If the guy still won't/doesn't get out so it can be hooked up, have them boot the car, give him a ticket for failure to have license and registration and issue a summons for disorderly conduct. Get back in your squad car and move on.

Then he would have probably shot the tow truck driver. There's no guarantee if one side de-escalates, the other side will reciprocate. So now the argument is to have police back down and let the average citizen handle it?

[mrbieler]

Then he would have probably shot the tow truck driver. There's no guarantee if one side de-escalates, the other side will reciprocate. So now the argument is to have police back down and let the average citizen handle it?

Curious at what point in what I wrote I said the tow truck driver was left the handle the situation by himself.

[B Cart]

The sad thing is, we are living in a world where many officers are becoming hesitant to go hands on, or use excessive force, for fear of repercussions. Unfortunately, this will continue to get officers killed.

It's been discussed before, but the Sgt should have tased from the drivers side, and much quicker after 1 warning. They gave the driver way too much time to decide to go for his gun. Once they realized he wasn't going to be compliant, speed and violence of action should have been used immediately to get him under control. Hopefully it will be a good learning experience for future training.

[WillBrink]

Then he would have probably shot the tow truck driver. There's no guarantee if one side de-escalates, the other side will reciprocate. So now the argument is to have police back down and let the average citizen handle it?

Or what is the liability to the LEOs if the guy was under the influence of what ever drives off and kills someones kid? Or he's so pissed they took his car he carjacks someone and kills them? And on it goes. That kid was obviously a violent felon on the edge and letting him walk to deescalate more than likely just pushing it off at best, if not as you say, leaving some civi to deal with it. Obviously the kid was pinging the LEOs trouble meter, they just didn't realize how dangerous and how much trouble he was. Over confidence is a killer too.

Dealing with him there and then was the right thing to do in my non LEO opinion and it just sucks they were lulled by him, no doubt going the extra extra mile to not appear too aggressive and such in these modern times, and it cost them badly.

All I see is a kid who needed to be dealt with hard and fast and with intent once is was very obvious he was not coming out of that car and had no plans to follow lawful orders, and he'd being jail and they'd go home to their kids.

As always, it's multi factorial event that likely includes current climate LE has to deal with causing them to drag it out too long, his doing a great job of acting and lulling them into thinking he was a harmless blubbering idiot, lack of realistic training, and so on.

My non LEO opinion, maybe once it's established the person is not going to follow the commands, empty the can of OC into his face, call for K9, or another unit, let him sit there while his face and eyes burn off and consider how much worse it's about to get.

I hope it ends up being one of the classic training examples and vids used to at leas drive home for other LEOs why you don't get into a lengthy debate and discussion with people in such situations and what ever lessons can be taken from it so others may live.

[OH58D]

Curious at what point in what I wrote I said the tow truck driver was left the handle the situation by himself.

At the point said officers return to their patrol vehicle and let Mr. Tow Truck attempt to boot the car. He would have been the fellow in the lead trying to do his job with an armed maniac not willing to allow that.

At some point someone or something has to give. There's always an element of sovereign citizen mentality which pops out from time to time in small hints on gun forums, but in a lawful and stable society, those types can't be allowed to operate with total immunity. Armed maniac and reckless illegal driver, was exerting his Rights to not be removed from that car, no matter what. Just another small example of social breakdown.