Tulsa, OK, slain officer Bodycam. *NSFW* hard to watch.

[Renegade]

Just to throw a grenade into this conversation, the flip side of this is you don't know the guy is hiding a pistol. At the point the sergeant is there, all we have is an expired tag and no license. He's getting a ticket and his car is going to be towed, but that's all we have to go on.

If there's no pistol and he's behaving this way refusing to comply, are folks OK with the officers beating the shit out of him over that?

Winner winner.

Folks are focusing too much on the verbal exchange, and not on the fact that two cops did not have the ability how to extract a POS from a car safely. That was my point above "But damn, this scenario and how to deal with has to be taught in the Academy."

[OH58D]

So what's the deal with these ineffective Tasers? I have seen too many videos recently where the things are more of an irritant than an immobilizer. If I was LE, I would have to question their use and go with pepper spray first, then the sidearm. Of course this is the viewpoint of a novice in this area.

[Firefly]

Just to throw a grenade into this conversation, the flip side of this is you don't know the guy is hiding a pistol. At the point the sergeant is there, all we have is an expired tag and no license. He's getting a ticket and his car is going to be towed, but that's all we have to go on.

If there's no pistol and he's behaving this way refusing to comply, are folks OK with the officers beating the shit out of him over that?

It sucks that officers are not granted the power of clairvoyance when they stop someone, but much of the posts above are why folks are marching up and down the cities pissed off.

The sergeant was too nice and should have gone to the taser early on, but I'm reading some of the above bullshit like shoving a gun in his face and I completely get why folks are protesting.

I’ll toss that grenade back. Ever notice how after the dust clears that 9 times out of 10 when officers ramp it up on someone that it turns out that subject was a shitstick?

And you did not read? If the taser doesn’t work then I mean...bang. You left little recourse. I don’t care about his moving violation. He’s not getting a gun in his face over that.

You gotta learn how to read people. When someone is bracing, stalling, and already have their line crossed (“I will pull over but not leave vehicle” or “You can come in my house but I’m not leaving the kitchen”), there is a reason for that and it involves the officer.

Every. Single. Time. A perp has tried to modify a stop or a scenario; it was to his advantage.

I’m sorry you think your white boy dindu nuffin. I’m sure he coaches Little League.

But it was never about the tag. It was about control over the scene and how it was going to end. On that tag bullshit, if he was so innocent he could have taken his ticket, caught a ride, cleared it up and gotten it out of impound.

If you missed that or are too much of a lolbertarian then that’s on you.

But a dead man whose last words were “What?” in total disbelief is a hell of a price to pay for treating everyone ’the same’

You understand why people riot, but not why people need a gun in the face?

Okay. Maybe you don’t really understand then.

[Firefly]

So what's the deal with these ineffective Tasers? I have seen too many videos recently where the things are more of an irritant than an immobilizer. If I was LE, I would have to question their use and go with pepper spray first, then the sidearm. Of course this is the viewpoint of a novice in this area.

The tasers are fine. They aren’t being used the right way. The prongs are hitting too close and thus not being effective or they are only hitting with one prong.

You also cannot tase after OCing someone because some OC is flammable and they will catch fire.

You need some distance for the prongs to hit right. A drive stun (where they are just hit without prong but the arc of the taser) would have been more effective than what he did.

I have agreed to be drive stunned. I am not a small man. Imagine a charlie horse from blackest hell. It would have matter.

[gunnerblue]

Just to throw a grenade into this conversation, the flip side of this is you don't know the guy is hiding a pistol. At the point the sergeant is there, all we have is an expired tag and no license. He's getting a ticket and his car is going to be towed, but that's all we have to go on.

If there's no pistol and he's behaving this way refusing to comply, are folks OK with the officers beating the shit out of him over that?

It sucks that officers are not granted the power of clairvoyance when they stop someone, but much of the posts above are why folks are marching up and down the cities pissed off.

The sergeant was too nice and should have gone to the taser early on, but I'm reading some of the above bullshit like shoving a gun in his face and I completely get why folks are protesting.

It isn't relevant that the sergeant didn't know that the driver had a weapon. The subject was being allowed to control the scene and the only reason for that level of resistance is that he didn't plan on letting himself be arrested that day. At that point, it isn't about expired tags and tickets, something much bigger is going on. An earlier and overwhelming show of force could very well have saved the sergeant's life.

[gunnerblue]

So what's the deal with these ineffective Tasers? I have seen too many videos recently where the things are more of an irritant than an immobilizer. If I was LE, I would have to question their use and go with pepper spray first, then the sidearm. Of course this is the viewpoint of a novice in this area.

OC (aka pepper spray) isn't always that effective either. It can be fought through by a determined individual, especially one that has been sprayed before and knows the effects, and it doesn't work at all on some people.

[mrbieler]

I'm really sorry you get a hard-on elevating force to lethal over any non-compliance issue. Good luck with that. I'm just not seeing the words "Judge Dredd" on the shields they currently issue police.

Bad guys walk all day around us because at the moment in time, they're didn't do nuttin. It sucks, but that's the price we have for NOT being in a police state.

[Firefly]

I'm really sorry you get a hard-on elevating force to lethal over any non-compliance issue. Good luck with that. I'm just not seeing the words "Judge Dredd" on the shields they currently issue police.

Bad guys walk all day around us because at the moment in time, they're didn't do nuttin. It sucks, but that's the price we have for NOT being in a police state.

A hard on for lethal force? Again, you need to learn to read people. Or at least read what people write.

I said I can speak with some pretty good authority on behalf too nice because I have been guilty of it and it has bitten me in the ass each and every time I did.

It’s not going to be like Schindler’s List or Jews in Germany if officers effect an arrest with the required violence of action. Police state? Hah.

What do you know about bad guys? What do you know about people who walk around every day?

What do you even know, man? What do YOU know?

You weren’t there!

[Averageman]

I dunno, looking at this from my Non-LEO side of the fence, I honestly think, if you're not compliant and I've pretty much run out of alternatives, bad shit is going to happen.
Every time some Yahoo Attorney talks about over zealous LEO's and the escalation of force, the Jury needs to see this video. This guy isn't the size of an NFL Linebacker, he doesn't look particularly skilled in Martial Art, he actually comes off like a little whiny bitch. The only thing he had on his side was a determination to not get handcuffed, and voila, it worked.
Watching OC and a taser fail to change this guys mind, I'm wondering why impact weapons weren't used and if it is about policy, well watch the Video, 'cause policy is sucking right there on tape.

[jpmuscle]

I'm really sorry you get a hard-on elevating force to lethal over any non-compliance issue. Good luck with that. I'm just not seeing the words "Judge Dredd" on the shields they currently issue police.

Bad guys walk all day around us because at the moment in time, they're didn't do nuttin. It sucks, but that's the price we have for NOT being in a police state.

Lol... this guy.

Weird how in all of these events the only one responsible for the outcome is the perp.

Along with the general public who collectively fail to demonstrate even a paltry understanding of use of force


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