SUV shopping - Nissan or Toyota

[Coal Dragger]

That’s mostly bullshit and you know it.

For those of you raging about funding unions, how much per vehicle do you think goes to the union labor vs the engineering, product development, marketing and sales, IT employees in these companies?

Sure your TOYota is put together in the USA. The line worker slapping on bumpers may make $12 an hour. The engineers are making the real money.

All of the real costs are in Japan and you are paying for platforms and power trains that are famously old.

But hey, it’s your fricken money and you asked.

Delicate power trains? Guess you’ve not driven many American products.

Sigh. Even a quick Google search yields an average yearly income for a Toyota assembler in a US plant at about $51K/year. Now is that lower than a UAW plant worker would make? Probably, but it’s still well over the national average. So if you’re going to accuse others of knowing posting bullshit, consider cleaning up your own bullshit posts.

Having said that, as a union member myself, I wish the UAW did a better job of marketing their union and earning the membership and union ratification of more plants. Sadly they don’t, for some reason union officials quickly lose their damn minds and forget where they came from when they get elected to the General Chairman’s office and up. It’s a well known phenomenon in about all unions, mine included (BLE-T). At the National and International level those pukes don’t give two shits about the members as long as member dues keep rolling in and kickbacks from management to screw over the rank and file hit their off shore bank accounts promptly and discreetly.

We can bash Toyota for utilizing dated engines and transmissions, but Toyota has a different philosophy on those components than some of their competitors. Look at just about any current Toyota engine and transmission and you find that when introduced they were segment leading in technology, power, efficiency, and reliability. Toyota spends a lot of time and money designing, testing, and producing engines and transmissions that can be market competitive for a long period of time that are also as close dead nuts reliable as possible from the first model year to the end of production. Then they keep making those same engines and transmissions because they worked right from the start and meet customer needs and expectations. Exciting? Nope, but largely Toyota is not marketing based on “new” whiz bang tech, they market on rock solid quality for the long term.

As for delicate engines and transmissions in domestic products, like any other product category we can think of, there are examples and exceptions. The company I work for contracts out train crew transportation to a third party contractor. This third party runs Ford Expeditions and GMC/Chevy Suburbans, these poor rigs see around 400K miles or so before being retired. They idle a lot, they get driven on rough crappy mine roads, and on RR right of way. Crews and their gear in and out all day. The GM’s are unequivocally more reliable under these conditions, and it’s not even close. The first batch of Fords had the 5.4 Triton V8, most of those didn’t last 200K between engine failures or transmissions going out. The HVAC in the Fords fails with more frequency as well, particularly the rear system. The newer 3.5L Ecoboost units are a bit better but still go down for maintenance more often than the GM counterparts, Ford still can’t seem to make a front and rear HVAC system that doesn’t stop working correctly. Meanwhile the old GM’s with the cockroach 5.3L V8 keep running and the HVAC still works most of the time. The cam in block V8 may not be cutting edge or sexy but much like a Toyota engine it is a highly refined design with all the bugs worked out, and they flat out refuse to die. Same for GM 6L80E transmissions in those old trucks.

I still would never buy a Tahoe/Suburban with the 5.3L though, because they’re gutless in a vehicle that heavy. I had the displeasure of driving one for a week as a rental recently. Yuck. Gutless. Anyone buying a GM 1/2 ton pickup or large SUV who doesn’t opt for the 6.2L is out of their damn minds in my opinion.

I look forward to the contractor we use acquiring some of the GM’s with the 3.0L Duramax, I expect those will be a disaster (because modern diesels are) and help make me lots of overtime waiting on transportation.

[SomeOtherGuy]

I still would never buy a Tahoe/Suburban with the 5.3L though, because they’re gutless in a vehicle that heavy. I had the displeasure of driving one for a week as a rental recently. Yuck. Gutless. Anyone buying a GM 1/2 ton pickup or large SUV who doesn’t opt for the 6.2L is out of their damn minds in my opinion.

My 2019 5.3L Sub gets 20mpg in ordinary driving, both commuting and on longer trips. Not doing anything special, driving like everyone else, regular 87 octane. Absolutely-freaking-fantastic in a vehicle that weighs 3 tons empty and seats 8. It replaced a Nissan Armada that struggled to get 15 (14 or lower commuting, 16-16.5 on road trips where the Sub always beats 20) and was roughly equivalent in volume and power.

To each their own. We have the 6.0L gas in a HD Chevy pickup and it's better for towing - nothing like a diesel - and gets 12 or so in typical use. Not any faster or more fun when empty. We had a diesel HD before that (Dodge/Cummins 5.9) and the engine was awesome, but once DEF and tier 4 came in, it just didn't seem worth paying $8k upfront. For the overall package, for someone only towing occasionally and NOT living above 5000ft elevation, the 5.3L seems like a good option.

[Coal Dragger]

Nah, 6.2L gives up very little in fuel economy in testing and nets much more useful power. $2500 well spent if you can get just the engine without a more expensive package.

I am biased towards power though, our current family car is a 2015 Chevrolet SS with an LS3. Because, I need 400+ hp in an innocuous looking 4 door.... yeah “need”...

[HKGuns]

Data talks, BS walks. American cars never make Consumer Reports recommended list. It's nearly Japanese cars from top to bottom.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Consumers reports is the biggest confirmation bias scam in the history of the universe.

[HKGuns]

Sigh. Even a quick Google search yields an average yearly income for a Toyota assembler in a US plant at about $51K/year. Now is that lower than a UAW plant worker would make? Probably, but it’s still well over the national average. So if you’re going to accuse others of knowing posting bullshit, consider cleaning up your own bullshit posts.

Bullshit post? Give me a fricken break. The actual numbers aren't important so it was made up. You're arguing like a liberal, the point is still valid as there are many multiples of the cost in the functions I point out and that can't be argued. If the guy slapping the bumper on the vehicle is making $51K what do you think the engineer is making? I'll answer it for you, at a bare minimum double that, in most cases triple it.

[THCDDM4]

Consumers reports is the biggest confirmation bias scam in the history of the universe.

This is Absolutely 100% true.

Toyota is still the answer to the OP’s question.

[Disciple]

This is Absolutely 100% true.

I don't use Consumer Reports but what is the scam?

[Averageman]

I thought I wanted an SUV.
I got a Tacoma and put a roof rack and a cap on the bed and couldn't be happier.
Four doors, just enough room and I've slept in the back when hunting.
I think I got a better deal this way.

[jbjh]

Anecdotal, but a friend of mine is shopping to replace her Lexus LX SUV. She’s looking at newer Lexus, Mercedes, BMW, Tesla, all top of the line stuff that with all the options are going to be in the $85-100k range. She happened to check out the Kia Telluride and was shocked how much she liked it. She’d but their top trim level, but can’t find one in stock to check out first (all the dealers will order it, but she doesn’t want to deal with all that). And that would top out at $50k. She’s going to look at the Hyundai as well.


Sent from 80ms in the future

[sig1473]

I still would never buy a Tahoe/Suburban with the 5.3L though, because they’re gutless in a vehicle that heavy. I had the displeasure of driving one for a week as a rental recently. Yuck. Gutless. Anyone buying a GM 1/2 ton pickup or large SUV who doesn’t opt for the 6.2L is out of their damn minds in my opinion.

Having owned 3 of the 5.3L in an '06 GMC Envoy Denali, '08 Silverado, '12 Yukon XL, all I can say is that these engines are damn near bulletproof.