Page 6 of 9 FirstFirst ... 45678 ... LastLast
Results 51 to 60 of 85

Thread: So you have a new AR. How to test?

  1. #51
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    2,176
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by mark5pt56 View Post
    In my opinion based on years of training, teaching and witnessing AR's being used, sort through the thread and take the advice of key post or part thereof.

    I would
    Do your homework, get a stock factory gun--don't add any whizzing crap to it
    Field strip, clean, inspect, lubricate
    Any where from 60-100 rounds zeroing, checking at various ranges and recheck zero when done.
    Field strip, clean, inspect, lubricate

    Next range trip, take what you would carry "in the end of times fantasy" do not reapply lube from the last time

    Shoot the load out however and if you make it through, you can call it golden.

    In reality, you will never get the opportunity (if you want to call it that) to test it and if you did, the odds of surviving your load out in that scenario are more than likely slim to none. If you do-you won't be posting it here anyhow.
    That sounds good.

    As for loadout, were i to leave the house prepared to fire the rifle if necessary and not at the range, I doubt I'd carry more than two or three extra mags. That's what I consider my "loadout". I value mobility most. But that's another discussion.
    Last edited by Ron3; 09-24-20 at 08:43.

  2. #52
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Location
    Southern Nevada and Mountains of Montana
    Posts
    28
    Feedback Score
    0
    Sorry, I have to take exception to the general recommendation from a number of responses herein that one shouldn’t modify a quality factory built AR rifle.

    First, your fine factory gun need good optics. Iron’s are fine and I could shoot the M16 I carried in the early 1970’s to earn my “Experts” badge. But today, I can shoot a Red Dot or Holographic sight for CQB better and faster. And, to reach out and touch your target at distance, magnified optics are simply better that irons or dots.

    The original M16 had a long fixed buttstock and 20” barrel. The hand grip angle is fine for that longer buttstock, but for today’s collapsible stocks, short barrels and CQB fighting a more vertical grip angle is preferred by many warfighters. Magpul MOE K2+, Bravo Campany and others do that job nicely.

    Shooting a rifle is, generally, a two handed endeavor. There are many useful aids for that clumsy off hand. Vertical foregrips (if your AR isn’t a pistol), angled foregrips and gripstops. Their all useful, some better than others for certain situations. Take your pick.

    Remember, the rats come out at night. If your going to use your AR as a defensive weapon, a quality light you can turn on and off at will may come in handy. What’s that safety rule, “know your target and what’s before and behind your target”? Light ‘em, if you have ‘em.

    Lastly, for me, nobody in the world makes a better AR fire control trigger/hammer assembly than Geissele Automatics. Every AR I own, in any caliber, that I think I may someday need for serious work sports a Geissele SSA trigger, well except for a couple that came from the factory with a SSA-E trigger assembly.

    Yes, the marketplace is full of all kinds of stuff one can use to hang on or modify their AR rifle. AR’s are Tinker-Toys for grown up boys and girls. Some of this stuff is crap, some make the AR platform rifle a more useful tool.
    Last edited by Grim.Patriot; 09-24-20 at 11:40.
    "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Ben Franklin

  3. #53
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    191
    Feedback Score
    0
    If you really want to test it.
    Go use it in a carbine match.
    That is what I do.

  4. #54
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    2,176
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by fedupflyer View Post
    If you really want to test it.
    Go use it in a carbine match.
    That is what I do.
    I will! It's been a couple years.

  5. #55
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    North Alabama
    Posts
    2,329
    Feedback Score
    16 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by Grim.Patriot View Post
    Sorry, I have to take exception to the general recommendation from a number of responses herein that one shouldn’t modify a quality factory built AR rifle.

    ~SNIP~

    Yes, the marketplace is full of all kinds of stuff one can use to hang on or modify their AR rifle. AR’s are Tinker-Toys for grown up boys and girls. Some of this stuff is crap, some make the AR platform rifle a more useful tool.
    I trimmed your post a bit for length.

    Optics, light, and sling are accessories not modifications and do not affect rifle reliability.

    Andy

    Edit-then I trimmed my own post

    .
    Last edited by AndyLate; 09-25-20 at 07:44.

  6. #56
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    4,213
    Feedback Score
    21 (100%)
    Hey guys, this is going towards what to add verses testing a new rifle. Keep it on track please.

    And for clarification if it wasn't obviously clear-I referenced whiz bang meaning the over whelming need to change buffers, springs, etc etc. and then the head scratch why it doesn't work.
    GET IN YOUR BUBBLE!

  7. #57
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    8,382
    Feedback Score
    3 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron3 View Post
    Oh sure, we'd like to shoot 250 rounds through it each day for a week or two starting cleaned and lubricated and adding some more lube now and then, but what can we do short of that to be "pretty sure" we have a working rifle with fewer rounds?
    It's really very simple. Lysander's post below is spot on-

    Quote Originally Posted by lysander View Post
    If you buy a quality gun, there is little need to shoot thousands of rounds to verify it works properly.

    When the military buys a brand new rifle to issue to someone going into combat, you know how many rounds it has fired to "verify" proper function?

    Sixty rounds.

    30 in semiautomatic with 10 used to verify the accuracy and zero, and 30 in full auto to verify the reliability and measure the cyclic rate. Then it is off to someone that may have to use it in combat.

    If you can't trust your rifle after one or two magazines, you might need to reconsider who you are buying from . . . .
    I'm thinking fire a couple mags before any functional modifications to be sure it works.

    Then change out the trigger, choose an optic, etc.

    Then do the real testing. What's a good procedure?

    I've had bad history with AR's.
    Ammo Before Accessories. Shoot Before Modifying.

    It doesn't take much to make sure your AR is working right, as Lysander pointed out. For my own peace of mind, the first thing do is load a few mags with just a single round and shoot them for a lock back check.

    Modifying your AR with trigger changes and the like is another story. You won't know how your AR shoots until you actually shoot it. Changing triggers is a good example. You won't know if a trigger change is needed or even wanted until you shoot your AR enough to find out. Yes, the standard AR trigger has noticeable creep and many feel like a dump truck dropped a load of gravel in the lower. But AR triggers can be smoothed out with grease and dry fire. Before dropping money on a new trigger, shoot enough to know what you want from that new trigger.

    Let's get back to the reliability check. There are things you can do to eliminate problems before you fire your first round
    1) If your AR does not come with a Colt or Sprinco extractor spring, replace it with a Colt or Sprinco extractor spring.
    2) Check the length of your action spring. With a bit of research, you can find out what the minimum allowable length is for your spring type (carbine, A5 or rifle).
    3) Clean out any factory applied preservative. You don't have to get it surgically clean unless you plan to use Frog Lube. If you do use Frog Lube, I will laugh my butt off when it turns gummy and your AR chokes. No Frog Lube!
    4) Check the torque of your barrel nut, castle nut, muzzle device & gas key screws. You can look up the torque values, set a torque wrench and tighten each in turn and see if they move. Or just put a wrench on them and give them a bit of a turn. DO NOT EVER TORQUE CHECK IN A LOOSENING DIRECTION!
    5) Check that both legs of the hammer spring are on top of the trigger pin.
    6) Pull back on the hammer and pay attention to how much force it takes to cock it. If the hammer spring is weak, ignition will be erratic and affect precision and reliability.
    7) Carbine buffers are too light. If your AR has a carbine bufer (carbine buffers do not have any H marking) plan on replacing it with an H2. (H buffers are good, H2 buffers are better).
    8) Test fire with 5.56 spec ammo. Do not use reduced pressure ammo for testing (steel cased, ammo loaded for use in 223 chambers etc.)
    Last edited by MistWolf; 09-25-20 at 22:58.
    INSIDE PLAN OF BOX
    1. ROAD-RUNNER LIFTS GLASS OF WATER- PULLING UP MATCH
    2. MATCH SCRATCHES ON MATCH-BOX
    3. MATCH LIGHTS FUSE TO TNT
    4. BOOM!
    5. HA-HA!!

    -WILE E. COYOTE, AUTHOR OF "EVERYTHING I NEEDED TO KNOW IN LIFE, I LEARNED FROM GOLDBERG & MURPHY"

    http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n289/SgtSongDog/AR%20Carbine/DSC_0114.jpg
    I am American

  8. #58
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Lowcountry, SC.
    Posts
    2,759
    Feedback Score
    13 (100%)
    Piggybacking off Mistwolf’d points 1, 2, and 7.... looking into guns I see shit the bed while relatively new, the most common cause in guns that I would expect to be high quality is a weak extractor spring. I dunno why this is a thing, but it is. The most common cause in “budget” guns and home “builds” with a low round count is a loose gas key. They usually also have a weak ass extractor spring. “Budget” guns are also commonly found to have a short action spring, and usually have a carbine buffer. Its not unusual to find a pile of cut corners and poor QC in these that may or may not be contributory.

    Just my limited personal experience.
    RLTW
    “Yep, it's definite. I simply don't care enough what you think.” -SteyrAug

  9. #59
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    569
    Feedback Score
    2 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron3 View Post
    Dude, I've pulled the trigger on AR15's too many times over the years to a click or dead trigger. (And watched others do the same) I do not trust them in general although I've had a few that ran well.

    My last two new uppers didnt work at all. (Model 1, PSA) I've had alot of rifles, several examples of each, and AR's top the list of stoppages. I hate stoppages and refuse to accept them as routine.

    I also hate trying to get a rifle with issues to work right spending time, money, and ammo and usually without results. If I get a gun that has issues I will sell it at a loss with disclosure because I'm done with that crap.

    I just got a replacement Beretta Tomcat. I bought it new in 2019. Wasnt reliable for the first 500 rds. Then the frame cracked. (Not unheard of with these but they still work fine) it was reliable for about 150 rds until the slide broke. Non-functional at that point. Beretta sent me another pistol and I quickly sold it.

    (Edited to add: I had JUST decided i was willing to carry this gun to protect my life literally 2 minutes before it broke. I was just going to finish a box of ammo when at about 800 rounds it catastrophically failed)

    I've bought new Glocks, other pistols, revolvers, shotguns, and rifles that didnt work right over the decades.

    I've only got two rifles now. They've been reliable. I want to sell one ( Beretta ARX) because I hear the aftermarket trigger in it has a problem (hammer suddenly breaks) and the factory trigger stinks. So I've got another of the other rifle coming.

    I need to trust it but dont want to spend $1k in ammo testing / training with it.
    "PSA" There's your problem right there.

  10. #60
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    North Alabama
    Posts
    2,329
    Feedback Score
    16 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by kirkland View Post
    "PSA" There's your problem right there.
    A PSA upper should not have been unreliable and they have decent warranty service. They are not BCM, Colt, LMT, etc. and I'm not saying they are. I am saying they will function when clean, lubed, and fed decent ammo from reasonable mags.

    What 1168 said about springs, gas keys, and buffers is spot on and certainly applies to PSA. In my limited experience, those changes keep the gun running when conditions are not ideal.

    I gave my youngest son a 16" PSA Freedom Midlength after I swapped the action and extractor springs, installed an H1 buffer, and verified everything was tight/staked. Is it a Colt? No. Is it a POS? No. It went pew pew without issues until aliens disappeared all the ammo from the U.S.

    Andy
    Last edited by AndyLate; 10-16-20 at 08:27.

Page 6 of 9 FirstFirst ... 45678 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •