GAO report on "Federal Tactical Teams"

[Slater]

An interesting read for anyone with some time to spare. Heck, never knew that Amtrak had a Special Operations Team:

https://www.gao.gov/assets/710/709297.pdf

[BoringGuy45]

Amtrak Police just has your typical part time SWAT team. Nothing really all that high speed. That's pretty much like every local, county, state, and federal police department in the country; either they have a SWAT team or are part of a multi-agency SWAT team. Every agency wants to make sure that they have at least a few of their officers who are qualified to wear plate carriers and carry around SBRs.

[chuckman]

While I don't think every agency, department, jurisdiction and municipality need one, I think they need access to one. I think that los federales especially could do with some LE consolidation.

[BoringGuy45]

While I don't think every agency, department, jurisdiction and municipality need one, I think they need access to one. I think that los federales especially could do with some LE consolidation.

In general, just about every level of law enforcement in the U.S. needs some amount of consolidation. Most of the part time SWAT teams, both local and federal, are woefully under trained and unprepared for major incidents. According to that article, the only true, tier 1 level counterterrorism units we have are FBI HRT, the Coast Guard MSRT, and possibly BORTAC. With the current and increasing chaos, I'm thinking that lot of these part time state and local SWAT teams should start considering consolidation. Even in some of the biggest cities, the SWAT teams are only part time. It makes more sense to have a highly capable, full time, statewide, multi-agency tactical unit capable of responding to major events than for every agency to have a small part time unit.

The same goes for a lot of the federal units. They could probably combine the part time teams into regional full time units, and probably even combine some of the related agencies' units into one team. Example: Border Patrol, CBP, and ICE could probably combine all their tactical teams into one unit (with regional teams).

[chuckman]

In general, just about every level of law enforcement in the U.S. needs some amount of consolidation. Most of the part time SWAT teams, both local and federal, are woefully under trained and unprepared for major incidents. According to that article, the only true, tier 1 level counterterrorism units we have are FBI HRT, the Coast Guard MSRT, and possibly BORTAC. With the current and increasing chaos, I'm thinking that lot of these part time state and local SWAT teams should start considering consolidation. Even in some of the biggest cities, the SWAT teams are only part time. It makes more sense to have a highly capable, full time, statewide, multi-agency tactical unit capable of responding to major events than for every agency to have a small part time unit.

The same goes for a lot of the federal units. They could probably combine the part time teams into regional full time units, and probably even combine some of the related agencies' units into one team. Example: Border Patrol, CBP, and ICE could probably combine all their tactical teams into one unit (with regional teams).

Dogma dies hard. Moving to regional and consolidated teams means giving up power and control, but it's been done and has been validated. We've seen this with tac/SWAT in many areas, and certainly with HAZMAT/CBRNE, bomb teams, and specialty rescue.

I have been a tac medic on three teams; one with a full-time team (which is a very good unit); and two 'part-time' ad hoc teams. You can imagine which is the better trained. On one of the PT teams, one tac officer shot himself in the foot with a M4 during a state-wide training event.

In my too-much-government-waste-and-bloated-big-government mind, our state is horribly set up: a highway patrol, a SBI, and a little POS agency called "alcohol law enforcement," a modern-day version of the booze revenue police. That doesn't even count the other 23 state LE agencies that have their own C&C, leadership, training, tac teams, etc. (i.e., wildlife, fisheries, capitol police, etc.).

[1168]

Dogma dies hard. Moving to regional and consolidated teams means giving up power and control, but it's been done and has been validated. We've seen this with tac/SWAT in many areas, and certainly with HAZMAT/CBRNE, bomb teams, and specialty rescue.

I have been a tac medic on three teams; one with a full-time team (which is a very good unit); and two 'part-time' ad hoc teams. You can imagine which is the better trained. On one of the PT teams, one tac officer shot himself in the foot with a M4 during a state-wide training event.

In my too-much-government-waste-and-bloated-big-government mind, our state is horribly set up: a highway patrol, a SBI, and a little POS agency called "alcohol law enforcement," a modern-day version of the booze revenue police. That doesn't even count the other 23 state LE agencies that have their own C&C, leadership, training, tac teams, etc. (i.e., wildlife, fisheries, capitol police, etc.).

NC still have a state run monopoly on liquor sales?

I agree that LE needs a lot more consolidation, particularly at the state and fed level. Cut the fat and the deadwood. We still need local (County, municipality) cops to be local, in my opinion, though.

One of the reasons there are so many part time SWAT teams is that most Chiefs, Sheriffs, Mayors, Councilmen, etc. don’t give a shit about a maximally proficient SWAT, SRT, Dive Team, etc. They just want to be able to say they have one. Its like dudes that put a Truglo dot on their rifles. They’re more interested in having patrol units in service because they are visible, and making your SWAT dudes patrol kills two birds with one stone. Even better if he’s also a dog dude and a diver. So many birds, one salary.

Our dudes are actually pretty proficient for a part time team (County SRT), due to frequent training, and the prior backgrounds of the members. I was pleasantly surprised. We also get called frequently. Some of the city SWAT guys, though, are.... ummm... interesting.

[chuckman]

NC still have a state run monopoly on liquor sales?

I agree that LE needs a lot more consolidation, particularly at the state and fed level. Cut the fat and the deadwood. We still need local (County, municipality) cops to be local, in my opinion, though.

One of the reasons there are so many part time SWAT teams is that most Chiefs, Sheriffs, Mayors, Councilmen, etc. don’t give a shit about a maximally proficient SWAT, SRT, Dive Team, etc. They just want to be able to say they have one. Its like dudes that put a Truglo dot on their rifles. They’re more interested in having patrol units in service because they are visible, and making your SWAT dudes patrol kills two birds with one stone. Even better if he’s also a dog dude and a diver. So many birds, one salary.

Our dudes are actually pretty proficient for a part time team (County SRT), due to frequent training, and the prior backgrounds of the members. I was pleasantly surprised. We also get called frequently. Some of the city SWAT guys, though, are.... ummm... interesting.

Yes...yes we do . Such utter bullshit.

Our city team is really good. They get seconded to back up FBI and BORTAC from time to time. "Back in the day" I had to be state-certified LEO to be a medic on the team. The county (SD) has a team, too; I really don't know too much about them.

[1168]

Yes...yes we do . Such utter bullshit.

At least they let you hunt on Sunday, now. Lol.

[chuckman]

At least they let you hunt on Sunday, now. Lol.

We need a 'like' button. I know, right? Still can't buy liquor on Sundays; beer and wine after 12 noon. Sometimes I really hate my state.

[BoringGuy45]

Dogma dies hard. Moving to regional and consolidated teams means giving up power and control, but it's been done and has been validated. We've seen this with tac/SWAT in many areas, and certainly with HAZMAT/CBRNE, bomb teams, and specialty rescue.

I have been a tac medic on three teams; one with a full-time team (which is a very good unit); and two 'part-time' ad hoc teams. You can imagine which is the better trained. On one of the PT teams, one tac officer shot himself in the foot with a M4 during a state-wide training event.

In my too-much-government-waste-and-bloated-big-government mind, our state is horribly set up: a highway patrol, a SBI, and a little POS agency called "alcohol law enforcement," a modern-day version of the booze revenue police. That doesn't even count the other 23 state LE agencies that have their own C&C, leadership, training, tac teams, etc. (i.e., wildlife, fisheries, capitol police, etc.).

I'm not one to talk about government waste and bloated big government in my state, as they wrote the book on it. But one thing we do have is a single state police agency that encompasses all of the above state agencies you listed, as well as being the primary LE agency for towns without a municipal PD. We do have environmental police that are a separate agency though, but given the nature of their work, combining them with the State Police wouldn't work. The downside to this is the fact that, first, we don't have county government and therefore no sheriff's offices or county PDs. While there are some very good state troopers that I know, the State Police, as an agency, cannot be trusted to refuse unconstitutional orders in the way that county sheriffs have been doing in many states. They also have a lot of control over POST standards as well, so they could easily disband any local PD or decertify any officer that didn't comply with such orders. So there is some downside to centralizing law enforcement.

In terms of tactical teams, the only full time team unit in my state is a very small segment of the State Police tactical team, and I think they do a lot more research and development of tactics and equipment than actual door kicking. Most of the very small agencies here usually rely on the State Police SWAT team for tactical response, and most of the medium and larger agencies are part of regional teams. Most of the cities have their own teams. That being said, again, all these teams, including the bigger city teams, are part time and not really ready for major incidents. They really could combine the SP, regional, and municipal teams into 1 statewide full time team (with part time reserves) and it would likely cost less and have more capabilities.