Choices

[mopar]

I'm looking to buy real soon(ie money's burning a hole in my pocket). I've got it narrowed down to 2 choices right now. RRA Tac Entry or an LMT. I went and actually looked at the rifles as here in MA they are not at most shops. I love the the feel of the SOPMOD stock. So my question is which would be the better choice. My impressions from handling the 2 is the RRA seemed more tight in the upper and lower fit the LMT was kinda loose and the M4 feed ramps were slightly off. The RRA seemed a bit better finished. The LMT seem the have the gas key staked better(the RRA looked good also)which is common problem I've seen on our issued duty Bushmaster. With the addition of the stock they will both be within 40 of each other. The LMT has 1/7 twist and a single stage trigger the RRA has a 1/9 and smoother 2 stage triger. The LMT and the RRA dominator2 mount/BUIS I plan to add an EOTECH in the near future and it will be requirement to be able to co witness and I like the way the dominator mout placed the EOTECH a little higher will the LMT be able have as good a sight picture and transition??
If those were you choices which would you choose??

[C4IGrant]

I'm looking to buy real soon(ie money's burning a hole in my pocket). I've got it narrowed down to 2 choices right now. RRA Tac Entry or an LMT. I went and actually looked at the rifles as here in MA they are not at most shops. I love the the feel of the SOPMOD stock. So my question is which would be the better choice. My impressions from handling the 2 is the RRA seemed more tight in the upper and lower fit the LMT was kinda loose and the M4 feed ramps were slightly off. The RRA seemed a bit better finished. The LMT seem the have the gas key staked better(the RRA looked good also)which is common problem I've seen on our issued duty Bushmaster. With the addition of the stock they will both be within 40 of each other. The LMT has 1/7 twist and a single stage trigger the RRA has a 1/9 and smoother 2 stage triger. The LMT and the RRA dominator2 mount/BUIS I plan to add an EOTECH in the near future and it will be requirement to be able to co witness and I like the way the dominator mout placed the EOTECH a little higher will the LMT be able have as good a sight picture and transition??
If those were you choices which would you choose??

First, unless you are buying the LMT on PD letterhead, you cannot purchase a complete LMT weapon. Also, the LMT is mil-spec and the RRA is about as far from the TDP as one can get (if that matters to you).

IMHO, fit and finish do not matter. The internals is the ONLY thing to pay attention to in a fighting weapon. The LMT has a HPT/MP tested bolt, 4150 barrel steel, chrome lined, F marked FSB, M4 barrel extenstion, M4 receiver, class III HA, mil-spec receiver extension, 1/7 twist and 5.56 NATO Chamber.

One last comment, the RRA 2 stage trigger has been KNOWN to work out the second stage (giving you a long first stage). You are better off getting a single stage trigger and then upgrading at a later date to a Geissele trigger.


C4

[C4IGrant]

You also might want to read this thread: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=2194



C4

[mopar]

First, unless you are buying the LMT on PD letterhead, you cannot purchase a complete LMT weapon.

Yeah that is what I'd be doing. though I was told I'd get a better price buying the upper and lower seperate from another dealer I have yet to get the prices from LMT as they require the letter before they'll give you them and my chief doesn't want to be writing multiple letters should I get a better price from the dealer or vice versa and we can't simply mail a copy of our credentials.

I see your no fan of RRA. You say mil spec and TDP I have yet to actually find out what that all really means as everyone say mils spec. yet I have been unable to find out exactly what the military specs are?? Are mil Specs necessarily the right specs for LEO aplications ie barrel twist etc??

I saw your other thread interesting.


Basically I need a gun that will sustain the abuses of traing and perform when needed so I obviously want the best for my price range but don't want to spend money carelessly unneeded gee wiz options or specs that I'll never need like the profile to fit an M203 etc

[C4IGrant]

Yeah that is what I'd be doing. though I was told I'd get a better price buying the upper and lower seperate from another dealer I have yet to get the prices from LMT as they require the letter before they'll give you them and my chief doesn't want to be writing multiple letters should I get a better price from the dealer or vice versa and we can't simply mail a copy of our credentials.

I see your no fan of RRA. You say mil spec and TDP I have yet to actually find out what that all really means as everyone say mils spec. yet I have been unable to find out exactly what the military specs are?? Are mil Specs necessarily the right specs for LEO aplications ie barrel twist etc??

I saw your other thread interesting.


Basically I need a gun that will sustain the abuses of traing and perform when needed so I obviously want the best for my price range but don't want to spend money carelessly unneeded gee wiz options or specs that I'll never need like the profile to fit an M203 etc

My understanding on the LE LMT complete weapons is that there is a very long wait. So it might be easier and cheaper to buy them seperate. If you have to have a complete weapon from LMT, I can help you out.

TDP means technical data package. In it, the Govt defines how the weapons should be built (spec for every single hole, rail, grade of steel, testing and color)! So the term Mil-Spec and TDP go together.

Is the TDP the best way to go about building a weapon? In most ways yes. There are some things that can be improved upon, but for the most part, a weapon that is built following these specs will be pretty good IMHO. The problem with NOT following the TDP is that the companies do whatever they want. In most cases that means that they take the cheap way out.

Doing things right (proper steel, testing, proper anodizing, etc) cost money, a lot more money and companies don't want to pony up the cash (read less profit).

So IMHO, anyone that is going into harms way (mil/LE/Civy) is better off with a weapon that was made following the TDP SIMPLY for the reason that the parts are of much better quality (read more reliable).

Here are some basic things that the TDP calls out:

T Marked upper receiver
M4 barrel extenstion
4150 steel (not the 4150 that BM uses)
Chrome Lining
F marked FSB for the M4 and A4
HPT tested bolt and barrel
MPI tested bolt and barrel
Bolts made out of 154 carpenter steel
Black inserts in the extractor
1/7 twist
5.56 Nato Chamber



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[Diz]

Well, there has been a lot of water under the bridge with this weapons system. The basic difference as I see it between a RRA carbine and a LMT is the RRA is basically an older model "CAR-15" with some features to make it resemble a M-4, whereas the LMT carbine has the technical features to make it a real M-4 carbine. Now the question is, as a LEO, is the old standard good enough for you, or do you require the latest upgrades/ reliability packages. Since the GWOT, this weapons system has gone through some significant improvements. The LMT model incoporates these improvements, the RRA does not. If it was me, I'd go for the LMT hands down. Besides the reliability improvements, the 1-7 twist, combined with heavier 77 gr bullets has proven to be a better man-stopper in the GWOT.

[bullitt5172]

Grant pretty much nailed it on the head. The LMT is the better weapon hands down. Worth the extra money.

[mopar]

well a year and a half later I'm looking at getting another one LMT was definitely a great choice and will go for another LMT.

[Stickman]

If those were you choices which would you choose??

Without hesitation, I would go with the LMT. If my department allowed a broader variety of options, I would go with the Noveske N4 carbines before the LMT, but the LMT is a good weapon also.

John Noveske and his team take good care of us police officers, and I would consider them the best option for an off the shelf duty weapon. Take a look at the upgrades you get with the N4 basic, and see how much you end up saving. On top of that, you are getting a top of the line weapon that will hold up over the long haul.

[jhs1969]

Just received my LMT last friday. EXTREMELY pleased with it. Got it for less than my BM three years ago. Jensen Arms set me up, shipped both complete upper and lower to my FFL. Grant was out of stock at that time (sorry Grant, I look forward to sending you my business in the future ). Swapped all my goodies from the BM (KAC rail, GGG ver. grip, Aimpoint, Troy etc.) my wife wanted the BM light weight and simple.