Less powerful-yet-still-effective 12 ga defensive ammo suggestions?

[Buncheong]

“Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in ...”

Against all common sense and past experience I bought a police trade-in 870. I’m back in shotguns - couldn’t resist.

Can any of you fine Gentlemen please recommend an ammo load which will still be effective in and around my small home but not jar my fillings loose? 00 buck I can do for about 40 shells, then I’m done for the day and need 2 x Alleve.

Will #4 work?

I’d like to avoid blasting through a wall, across the property, and hurting a neighbor. I like my neighbors.

Thanking you in advance for any guidance ...

[ggammell]

If you want a round for defensive purposes, get a defensive round. Federal Flite Control Tactical 8-9 shot.

You can practice all day with lower recoil rounds. Many shotgun classes use birdshot for the majority of the rounds specifically because they don’t want to knock the fillings out of the students.

[SeriousStudent]

I practice with Winchester AA birdshot - the 3 dram equivalent load with 7 and a half size shot. That is very reliable, and has enough power to always cycle in my Beretta and Benelli semi-auto's. You won't have that problem with your 870. I'd honestly encourage you to stay away from the WallyWorld el cheapo zinc-based rounds. Those are made to the lowest possible standards. They frequently have issues with failures to extract from a shotgun chamber, especially the less well polished Express models.

Is your the Wingmaster or Police Magnum? Both are excellent, and capable of great work.

I'd encourage you to take a look at the Magpul shotgun stocks. They are very useful. If you have a buddy with one, try it out.

Stick some Velcro on the side of the receiver and the stock: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Then slap on on these on: https://www.skdtac.com/Esstac-Shotgu...-p/ess.125.htm

I'd definitely replace the mag tube spring with a Wolff spring from Brownells. The eight bucks is cheap insurance.

A lot of people properly consider the shotgun a niche weapon. But it's a niche that a lot of people live in - 3-25 yards.

ggammell is spot on with the Federal Flite Control ammo. The ne plus ultra is their 8-pellet reduced recoil 00 Buck load. Hornady licenses the same technology for their Versa-Tite wad, but their pellets do not use as much antinomy in the lead pellets, and their also do not copper-plate them. As a result, they deform more in the barrel and do not shoot as tight a pattern in any shotgun I have done a side-by-side comparison on.

If you really, really want to run down the rabbit hole, get a Benelli SBS with an Aimpoint Micro, ot a Beretta 1301 with an RDS.

Word around the campfire is that Beretta may introduce a 14" barrel for the 1301 next year. If they do, I'll be on that like ugly on an ape.

Until then, practice with that 870. Chant over and over "Feed the pig!"

If you have a chance, you can get a lot out of a one-day shotgun class. Matt and Rob Haught, Wayne Dobbs, Darryl Bolke, Tom Givens, Lee Weems, Ashton Ray and Scotty Reitz all come to mind. I have taken a lot of classes, and did the Tom Given's Shotgun Instructor class last year, sharing the Top Gun award. I did that with a 870 Police trade-in - in a class full of Beretta's and Benelli's.

So it can be done.

And the very last point you make about not shooting through the wall is a valid concern. I personally believe the very best way to accomplish that is by using a good shotgun (you now have one), quality ammo like Federal Flite Control, and judicious marksmanship. Bad people make great backstops. Shoot straight, don't miss, and shoot only as often as you need to. I have personally only seen one person that took a solid hit from 00 Buck within 20 yards that needed a second helping.

Kind of a wandering answer, but let me know if I can be of any further assistance.

[SeriousStudent]

Additional: I just saw you are in central Arizona. You really should reach out to Matt Haught at Sym-Tac.

https://sym-tac.com/

Matt is a personal friend, and a really good dude who is local to you. He is the son of Chief Rob Haught (rhymes with double-aught) who teaches the push-pull method that is highly effective at reducing recoil.

Another guy you may want to try and connect with is Cecil Burch. http://www.iacombatives.com/

Cecil is a 3rd degree black belt in BJJ, and pretty dang handy with a shotgun. He's just a super nice fellow as well, and a tremendous mentor. He is also part of the Shivworks Cartel, which I cannot recommend strongly enough.

Hope that helps.

[markm]

Against all common sense and past experience I bought a police trade-in 870. I’m back in shotguns

For the record...

[Todd.K]

8 pellet Federal reduced recoil.

And a Beretta 1301T. It feels about a pound lighter than an 870 but recoil is noticeably less harsh. I think it's a big enough difference to consider before you start putting money into 870 upgrades.

[Artos]

You can literally get 7/8oz trainer/target loads in 12ga now & these have such little recoil, they won't function in many autos...I shoot a min dram 1oz target around 1200fps that is equal to most 20ga out of my Zoli for bird hunting. No reason to get beat up for practice & having a pump & doubt any of us will notice recoil under stressful situations.

There's plenty of research on the smaller pellets having very poor penetration, especially if the perp has layered clothing...I had the same concern but sticking with buckshot after seeing such poor performance.

[Artos]

double

[SeriousStudent]

For the record...

People's Exhibit A.....

[SeriousStudent]

I do encourage folks who advocate using birdshot for self defense to actually go shoot a bird with it. The last time I went dove hunting (white wing's and morning doves here in Texas) we very frequently had to wring the neck of a bird that got knocked down. Think about that for a sec.

So it just disables a small bird with hollow bones just enough so it cannot fly, and I'm gonna use it to smite a two-time felon that smoked a basketball-sized crack rock and washed it down with four bottles of Monster. Got it.

And I'll back Todd.K's recommendation of the Beretta 1301T. It is very choice. It's also about two kilobucks once you get it all set up with the appropriate Aridus and Magpul gear, not to mention an Aimpoint Micro.

With good ammo and training, you can do the Lord's work with a Police 870.