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Thread: Shooting an open bolt submachinegun well...

  1. #1
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    Shooting an open bolt submachinegun well...

    I have an M10/9 with a Lage upper and a T1. It’s been a steep learning curve going from closed bolt weapons with light triggers (place the reticle on your target and slowly squeeze the trigger) to an open bolt FA Zweapon with a 10+lb trigger (squeeze that trigger with all your might and ride the lightning)

    I’ve got about 2500 rounds through it already, and have worked on quite a few things with the help of some unmentionable M4C’ers but if I had 2500 through any other platform I would be crushing 1/3 IPSCs at 100y.

    With this, I am lucky if I can hit a C zone at 50y on semi standing, and I can’t even hit a 6” paper target from the bench consistently. I always end up shooting high due to the action of the bolt. The bolt just ****ing rocks you up and down as it slamfires. I even slow motion filmed myself dry firing and you can clearly see the muzzle rise as the bolt hits the barrel.

    Am I just trying too hard to get precise with this thing? Offhand, using 5rd bursts I can get >80% in the A zone at 25y.

    At 50y I have to keep it at 2rd bursts. But it’s not necessarily the action of it moving upward that bothers me, it’s my inconsistency in being able to get the first shot on target. That huge bolt flying forward and heavy gritty trigger doesn’t allow for a precise shot
    Why do the loudest do the least?

  2. #2
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    I have not been able to get accurate with single shots. With long strings I can get into a rhythm and keep them tight, but the single shots are tough.

    I believe with consistency you can figure a hold-under, but with ammo prices, I havent been able to really try to test that theory.

    Right now im better with my glock than my m11 with single shots.

    Holding the gun extremely tight into my shoulder, with heavy pressure from the front hand helped reduce the jump a little.
    Are you using a vfg? It seems to help also.

    I feel your pain- I was extremely disappointed with the 50yd performance, especially since I wanted to run it in a few uspsa matches. Im not even close to ready yet. Ill eventually get the lage trigger, but its more for splits than accuracy. My max speed with the m11 is about half what I am with a stock glock.
    Last edited by MegademiC; 10-16-20 at 08:05.

  3. #3
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    For me, adding the Lage full auto only trigger helped. When I installed it, it was binding on the original cast sear, I replaced it with a machined one from FTF industries, and the trigger pull is at a more manageable 8 lbs. But more importantly it doesn't feel like I'm crushing kitty litter with my trigger anymore.

    Other than that, I tried a few different vertical grips to see which felt the best, I settled on the Magpul RVG to pull in as tight as possible with a "full retard" grip.

    I don't think I would ever shoot this at 100 yards, though.

    edit: the bottom left one here
    https://ssequine.net/afggrip.jpg
    Last edited by Mike Miller; 10-16-20 at 09:00.

  4. #4
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    Glad it’s not just me.

    I took a slow mo video of me dry firing and you can very clearly see the muzzle rise as the bolt slams forward.

    I guess the only way to counter act this movement is to aim lower. I’ll have to see exactly how much lower at 25 and 50.

  5. #5
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    I have spent years behind an Uzi, mini-Uzi and an M11 w one of Richards first designs. As much as you can tame these beast to run smooth on FA, that first shot is always a beast and i have never been able to tame it. Prone or from a supported position gets you more close but thats it. And for FA a VFG and starting low on target is key, for me!

    Honestly the most stable platform for first shots or semi for me has been a 1921 Thompson. I believe that is more in the sucker's weight more than anything else.

    Not what they were designed for hence the MP5s rule here.

    Funny, I too can hit steel at 100yds with a Glock consistently, but forget it with any of the aforementioned open-bolts.
    Glocks are functional tools and nothing else, hence they have no soul - Rob S.

  6. #6
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    I shoot my full-size Uzi accurately. My m11/9 is long gone, but it was in stock form and I only ever shot it at an indoor range and just hosed targets at approximately 10 yards. It’s possible to shoot open bolt SMGs well. The lage equipped MACs are the most commonly used SMGs in competition.
    SLG Defense 07/02 FFL/SOT

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