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Thread: PDW Comparison

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by WillieThom View Post
    I’m not sure what to think about the Glock chassis systems. Admittedly, I have zero experience on one. I’ve got some acquaintances who swear by the Roni/Micro-Roni chassis, but they are not someone that I would necessarily pay much attention to when it comes to their training or philosophies. I don’t want to say they are fudds but you know what I mean..
    I've yet to see one that interests me.

    Imagine for a moment you could add a stock to a Beretta 93r or even discuss the HK VP70M, they still had some challenges. Even if you could SBR a Glock and frame mount a red dot sight AK style, you still have that slide flying back and forth moving the firearm. Despite additional contact points from the stock and improved sighting methods with a stationary RDR, the weapon still has a lot of movement and IMO isn't worth the slight trade off in size to come down from something like a TP9.

    You would basically have to create a handgun size platform that contains an internal bolt rather than a slide and go from there. Examples like the Skorpion and M-11 show it can be done, admittedly those are .380 examples, but the Micro / Mini Uzi isn't that far off in terms of comparable size.
    It's hard to be a ACLU hating, philosophically Libertarian, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, scientifically grounded, agnostic, porn admiring gun owner who believes in self determination.

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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteyrAUG View Post
    The B&T USW is an interesting concept and I think the USWA1 is pretty practical. However I don't think the add on systems for SIGs, Glocks, etc. is quite there yet. Might as well get that CAA doodad add on for a Glock.

    But when they day comes that they can incorporate the USW design into Glocks and SIGs like they did with the CZ based Sphinx pistol, then you will have something. Right now my smallest PDW (not counting my VZ-61 Skorpion) it a B&T TP9 SBR. It's a tad expensive but it actually works and you don't have to solve reciprocating slide problems.
    The B&T glock USW chassis is actually very nice. It is light years better than the command arms, Roni, etc Israeli options.
    SLG Defense 07/02 FFL/SOT

  3. #13
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    The Flux Defense seems like a good competitor to the USW for the P320 platform.
    Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

    老僧三十年前未參禪時、見山是山、見水是水、及至後夾親見知識、有箇入處、見山不是山、見水不是水、而今得箇體歇處、依然見山秪是山、見水秪是水。

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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteyrAUG View Post
    I've yet to see one that interests me.

    Imagine for a moment you could add a stock to a Beretta 93r or even discuss the HK VP70M, they still had some challenges. Even if you could SBR a Glock and frame mount a red dot sight AK style, you still have that slide flying back and forth moving the firearm. Despite additional contact points from the stock and improved sighting methods with a stationary RDR, the weapon still has a lot of movement and IMO isn't worth the slight trade off in size to come down from something like a TP9.

    You would basically have to create a handgun size platform that contains an internal bolt rather than a slide and go from there. Examples like the Skorpion and M-11 show it can be done, admittedly those are .380 examples, but the Micro / Mini Uzi isn't that far off in terms of comparable size.

    A Locked breach recoil operated Glock is going to have less recoiling mass than a blowback operated Uzi even if the recoiling mass is internal. I don’t agree that the problem exists as you describe. The BT chassis is designed in such a way to prevent the user from having their teeth punched out as well.

  5. #15
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    I have a bunch of time on the TP9 and a bunch of time on B&T chassis with Glock 17s and 40s. I really like my TP 9 and the suppressor is pretty cool. It is a great little package. I have run them on multiple targets on the clock and without the can, I am faster with the Glock. Comparing the two:

    They have the same length of pull with the tailhook attached.
    The tailhook being wider than the stock, actually makes it more shootable. Its very stable. It doesn't move much at all.
    The Glock trigger is better on the take up and the reset.
    The Glock iron sights (that are useable from within the chassis are superior to the "sights" that come on the TP 9.
    The Optic mount is a push. They both hard mount (not on the slide).
    THe magazine situation is vastly better for Glocks. Cheaper, with good capacity.
    The B&T chassis would also work with a G19 or a Glock 17 with a chopped grip. I run mine with a 22 round mag in it and it is significantly smaller than the TP9.


    The advantage that the TP9 has is a active mechanical safety that would make it safer in a slung application. The fix for the chassis is to make a holster/sheath type system that secures the gun, hides the trigger, and provides a clip to anchor the stock and tailhook. I'm working on that now.

    I haven't shot the Roni, or other chassis systems but if you haven't shot the B&T you owe it to yourself to try before you make a judgment.
    Damien

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  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by call_me_ski View Post
    A Locked breach recoil operated Glock is going to have less recoiling mass than a blowback operated Uzi even if the recoiling mass is internal. I don’t agree that the problem exists as you describe. The BT chassis is designed in such a way to prevent the user from having their teeth punched out as well.
    The mini/micro Uzi doesn't have the same huge heavy bolt as a full size Uzi, also there is less rearward travel on an internal bolt versus a moving slide. Shoot something like a Vz61 against a Glock and you'll understand the point I was trying to make.

    Move up to something like a TP9 with stock and VFG it's not even a discussion anymore.
    It's hard to be a ACLU hating, philosophically Libertarian, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, scientifically grounded, agnostic, porn admiring gun owner who believes in self determination.

    Chuck, we miss ya man.

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  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by MountainRaven View Post
    Unless something has changed in terms of the ammunition available in 300 BLK in the last two years (and I don’t think it has), I think the 300 BLK is a no-go: Ammunition either woefully underperforms or overpenetrates so badly that you might as well be using a 300 Win Mag. And given that there maybe people in a crowd who likely don’t need to be shot, overpenetration in a crowd is a Bad Thing.
    You're including the Barnes 110 in this assessment?

  8. #18
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    I wouldn't worry about caliber much. Anything will probably achieve the desired result with a decent hit.

    If they have a gun, assume armor, too.

    A pistol with a deep magazine, extra magazines, and a go-bag with a different mask / shirt / hat would be nice so you can get away from the crowd and get a lawyer.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by themonk View Post
    You're including the Barnes 110 in this assessment?
    Assuming that the 110-grain Barnes is the one they boast about getting 18+” of penetration at 300 yards out of a “short” barrel... yes.

    Would I use it in a defensive rifle under most circumstances? Yes. Would I use it in a rural truck gun where defensive use is secondary to hunting and predator control? Yes. But not if I’m stuffing it in a PDW where the objective is to drive boarders off from my automobile in an urban environment.
    " Nil desperandum - Never Despair. That is a motto for you and me. All are not dead; and where there is a spark of patriotic fire, we will rekindle it. "
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