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Thread: Safes

  1. #11
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    Typical gunsafes are not really built for ARs, especially with optics, so they fill up pretty fast. The gun capacity from safe builders is either fiction or they mean Daisy Red Riders because there is no way the could hold the number of guns they claim to anyway.

    I have been tempted to use SecureIt's gunsafe retrofit to make my humorously named 12 gun Liberty safe a little more AR friendly. https://www.secureitgunstorage.com/p...retrofit-kits/

    Every time I get ready to order one, I remember I only have 1 AR and a couple pistols in that safe anyway. It's installed in our bedroom closet with a "big" safe somewhere else in the house.

    I would encourage you to check out used gunsafes on Craigslist or Facebook before paying the frankly inflated prices for a new one. I think I paid $200 for a small Liberty gunsafe and $350 for my son's medium sized Browning Prosteel; both are in excellent condition.

    Bigger gunsafes are heavy and not really practical to buy used from a private party.

    Most gun "safes" are really glorified cabinets, but I only expect mine to discourage kids and crackheads. Not all of us can really deal with or need a TL-30 safe.

    Andy
    Last edited by AndyLate; 10-24-20 at 23:17.

  2. #12
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    Just get a really big Liberty, I love mine.
    Sic semper tyrannis.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyLate View Post
    Typical gunsafes are not really built for ARs, especially with optics, so they fill up pretty fast. The gun capacity from safe builders is either fiction or they mean Daisy Red Riders because there is no way the could hold the number of guns they claim to anyway.

    I have been tempted to use SecureIt's gunsafe retrofit to make my humorously named 12 gun Liberty safe a little more AR friendly. https://www.secureitgunstorage.com/p...retrofit-kits/

    Every time I get ready to order one, I remember I only have 1 AR and a couple pistols in that safe anyway. It's installed in our bedroom closet with a "big" safe somewhere else in the house.

    I would encourage you to check out used gunsafes on Craigslist or Facebook before paying the frankly inflated prices for a new one. I think I paid $200 for a small Liberty gunsafe and $350 for my son's medium sized Browning Prosteel; both are in excellent condition.

    Bigger gunsafes are heavy and not really practical to buy used from a private party.

    Most gun "safes" are really glorified cabinets, but I only expect mine to discourage kids and crackheads. Not all of us can really deal with or need a TL-30 safe.

    Andy
    All safes need Rifle Rods. Traditional gun safe interiors suck. The SecureIt solution looks cumbersome and inefficient to me. Rifle Rods are the answer.

    I agree about buying used, but recommend buying a used composite TL15 from a local safe and vault store. They will deliver usually for a nominal fee if you buy from them. These same vendors also typically move safes, so if you find one for sale you can arrange for it to be moved.

    The vast majority of RSC gun safes are really not very secure and are easily defeated by common tools.
    Last edited by JoshNC; 10-25-20 at 11:16.
    SLG Defense 07/02 FFL/SOT

  4. #14
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    I have four American Security safes, split between my home “in-town” and a little ranch nestled up in the hills. Yes, it would take a great deal of work to get through the door, with all those locking bars, but I’m fairly sure any clown with a metal bladed circular saw could go through the sides or back. So, for me firearm security is a “layered” thing.

    First both houses are occupied with full time residence. To get to a door of window, one has to go over a fence or past a locked gate. Then there is the motion sensor lights and obvious cameras. Once a door/window is opened, or motion, or glass break sensor trips, there is the alarm with lots of noise on-site and auto WiFi/cell call-out. A true professional thief could defeat all that, but there are plenty of easier targets down the street. Yes, it takes resource, time and energy to maintain and consistently use all that, but, like carrying a concealed firearm, it becomes a way of life. Never leave home without it.
    "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Ben Franklin

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grim.Patriot View Post
    I have four American Security safes, split between my home “in-town” and a little ranch nestled up in the hills. Yes, it would take a great deal of work to get through the door, with all those locking bars, but I’m fairly sure any clown with a metal bladed circular saw could go through the sides or back. So, for me firearm security is a “layered” thing.

    First both houses are occupied with full time residence. To get to a door of window, one has to go over a fence or past a locked gate. Then there is the motion sensor lights and obvious cameras. Once a door/window is opened, or motion, or glass break sensor trips, there is the alarm with lots of noise on-site and auto WiFi/cell call-out. A true professional thief could defeat all that, but there are plenty of easier targets down the street. Yes, it takes resource, time and energy to maintain and consistently use all that, but, like carrying a concealed firearm, it becomes a way of life. Never leave home without it.
    Yep, layered security is best. I still like a high security safe, especially since a used reconditioned composite TL15, TL30, and even TL30X6 can be had very reasonably. There is a somewhat local outfit with several hundred such safes. They do make moving a real PITA.
    SLG Defense 07/02 FFL/SOT

  6. #16
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    FYI:

    I'm not a safe expert, but I have done a fair amount of research on the topic, and what follows may be of help to those looking at safes/gun safes. When it comes to safes (and the term "safe" we will get to shortly...) you truly get what you pay for. You don't have spend a fortune for a good container, but in my view, it makes no sense to protect expensive guns, your wife's jewelry, and essential documents in a "safe" gotten from the sporing goods store.

    It's essential to understand what usually passes for a "safe" is nothing of the kind. Companies spend a lot of time on fancy paint jobs, impressive handles, and marketing to convince people they are getting a true safe. However, the vast majority of what's sold are Residential Security Container (RSCs)

    Companies give you a shiny fancy looking door, etc, but at the end of the day it's at best RSC rated, and not a "safe" as viewed by anyone who actually knows/installs real safes. It's important to note, not all RSCs are created equal, but when you look at what the actual RSC UL rating means, it will make you cringe:

    "UL rated safes that carry the RSC label offer protection from tool attacks against the door of the safe for five minutes. Safes that carry the TL-15 and TL-30 classification offer protection from tool attacks against the safe's door for 15 or 30 minutes, respectively. Safes rated TLTR-15 or TLTR-30 offer protection from tool and torch attacks against the door for 15 or 30 minutes, respectively. Safes that are rated TLTRX6-15 or TLTRX6-30 offer protection from tool and torch attacks against any part of the safe for either 15 or 30 minutes. Of course, the price increases with the protection level."

    If what you have/are considering, is UL Rated (and I wouldn't buy it if were not, but that's me and if there are any real lock smiths/safe installers here who wish to comment/correct me, please do) look at the inside door panel, there should be a tag that lists its UL rating.

    Another important issue, especially for gun safes, most companies use simple gypsum board is an insulator, which draws moisture. They may use fancy terms, but on opening a wall, its gypsum board.

    Higher end safes will use a composite of some sort, that is better all around for both fire and security. To the best of my knowledge, only AMSEC uses a composite in the lower end BF series products for example which improves it's security as well as fire rating.

    Budget is the essential issue here, as you can get a cheap 12g gun locker or a TL30 AMSEC gun safe, and much inbetween. It's often a good idea to decide on what to spend on a safe as a % of what it is you are trying to protect, as well as other factors, such as additional security (alarms, quality of locks, doors, etc, etc) but securing things yo don't want stolen means not putting it in a cheap metal box that's intended to prevent kids and "snatch and grab" types.

    Second consideration is location, as a real safe has limitations where you can put it due to their weight and size.

    As mentioned, not all RSCs are created equal. For example, the AMSEC BF series is as good as some companies B rates safes, etc.. and probably the best of the RSCs on the market.

    Finally, no matter what you get, have it bolted down. I can't tell you how many times I have read about safes simply being carried off by a few guys with a hand truck, with the owner (ex owner!) always being shocked! If a few guys with a sturdy hand truck can get it in your house, what makes anyone believe the reverse is not true???

    If you do everything right and it still gets broken into/taken away, 99.9%, it's an inside job and someone knew exactly what you had and came prepared, so pick your friends well!

    If you have the budget and need to protect an expensive collection (and people willing to put their collection of fine guns into a cheap RSC are asking for trouble...). I believe AMSEC is the only company that makes a TL30 UL listed gun safe.

    It's a monster...See:

    http://www.amsecusa.com/gun-safes-HS-main.htm

    That's my basic run down/advice on safes that comes from my research, discussions with many a safe installer, etc. Feel free to add your thoughts. I'm sure some of you can confirm what I said above about safes simply being taken away during your work experiences as LE.

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  7. #17
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    Just a thought, my safe has a floor that the guns sit on that is elevated from the bottom of the safe, leaves a void. If one was concerned about making it more difficult to move the safe and are unable to bolt it down, one could fill that void with ingots of lead or some other dense material. A three hundred pound safe with 700 pounds of lead or tungsten (I know $) would increase the difficulty in moving it.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by rero360 View Post
    Just a thought, my safe has a floor that the guns sit on that is elevated from the bottom of the safe, leaves a void. If one was concerned about making it more difficult to move the safe and are unable to bolt it down, one could fill that void with ingots of lead or some other dense material. A three hundred pound safe with 700 pounds of lead or tungsten (I know $) would increase the difficulty in moving it.
    It doesn't matter how heavy it is if they can get a lever under it. I moved my 900+ lb safe around by myself easily (fairly easily) with a few hundred pounds in it before I bolted it down. Bolting it down is really the only way to prevent someone moving it. If they can move it, they can get it to a place they can peel it or even get better leverage to pry the door open.

    I even have my puny (14 ga) bedroom closet safe bolted down.

    Andy
    Last edited by AndyLate; 10-25-20 at 18:22.

  9. #19
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    I worry way more about fire than I do theft...then again I've never had a break in & my home did burn up when I was in the 3rd grade & Dad lost all his guns.

    Got big dogs / alarm, someone is almost always home & got good nosy neighbors...telling ya, it's fire that sucks as most crooks want in/out ASAP!! I have a pretty neat safe I found in a downtown warehouse that cost me more to move than what I paid. When the mover finally got it up on the HD dolly & was wenching it from garage to trailer, the wheels started plowing the asphalt & busted his whole set up. Had to come back days later with a new plan & man power. The hinges on my B&F are like a small broom handle vs a beer can on the Robust. I can't find any history on it & comes from Pretoria S. Africa...the D&T holes on the top for eye bolts / lift are at least and inch OD & my safe guy thinks it was made for storing diamonds. TL-30 & estimates are 4000-5000lbs. Walls are like 5" think & door is heavier than most standard safes.
    "You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass."
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  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyLate View Post
    It doesn't matter how heavy it is if they can get a lever under it. I moved my 900+ lb safe around by myself easily (fairly easily) with a few hundred pounds in it before I bolted it down. Bolting it down is really the only way to prevent someone moving it. If they can move it, they can get it to a place they can peel it or even get better leverage to pry the door open.

    I even have my puny (14 ga) bedroom closet safe bolted down.

    Andy
    Yep. Having moved 500lb safes myself and having watched 2 ton safes get moved with relative ease by guys with the proper tools, moving a safe, even a real high security safe isn’t very hard.
    SLG Defense 07/02 FFL/SOT

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