Press Checks (Moved from French Army Selects G17 thread)

[Mysteryman]

So what's your point here? Press checks are bad? Or do you not have a point to make?

Yes, the point here is that just because some unit, group, dudes, etc is doing something doesn't mean it's the best method, an effective method, a necessary method/action, or even relevant. The quote "modern tactics.." is a constantly changing arena. By default, if the tactics are changing it's usually because they were inefficient, ineffective, or not relevant. There's a lot of "do what team XYZ does" or "do what **famous person X** does/says". All with little to zero critical thinking or application of logic.

Press checks are a false economy, entirely rooted in promoting your own confidence in either your gear, your gun handling, or both. The risk is an out of battery condition that is completely avoidable. Aside from that, I couldn't care less how people monkey f**k with their gear.

[LowSpeed_HighDrag]

Yes, the point here is that just because some unit, group, dudes, etc is doing something doesn't mean it's the best method, an effective method, a necessary method/action, or even relevant. The quote "modern tactics.." is a constantly changing arena. By default, if the tactics are changing it's usually because they were inefficient, ineffective, or not relevant. There's a lot of "do what team XYZ does" or "do what **famous person X** does/says". All with little to zero critical thinking or application of logic.

Press checks are a false economy, entirely rooted in promoting your own confidence in either your gear, your gun handling, or both. The risk is an out of battery condition that is completely avoidable. Aside from that, I couldn't care less how people monkey f**k with their gear.

I got it. You had no point.

[Mysteryman]

I got it. You had no point.

Maybe ask an adult to read my post for you. Perhaps the words are too complex.

[Uncas47]

OK everybodys pissed about the election, but growling at each other here won't change it. If we don't hang together as a community now, we will most surely hang separately. The enemy loves to see us eat each other.
Hugs and kisses to all.

[JSantoro]

Press checks are retarded.

As with virtually any seemingly arbitrary method related to manual-of-arms, no, the act itself is not retarded.

Doing so on the basis of something like "we've always done it this way" without being able to articulate WHY it's done that way is retarded. Making excuses, vice providing reasons, is retarded.

If I'm gonna throw brickbats over HOW somebody conducts a press-check, my question would be "why do it visually AT ALL, when you can do it digitally under ANY lighting condition and produce equally reliable results?" That's boilerplate, to me, for a lot of things that folks say "...visually AND digitally/tactilely inspect..." If I can satisfy the desired endstate of a given task without bothering to look, why would I look? So, I don't look any more, and I apply that to a lot of tasks where the visual component can be done digitally, instead.

If an out-of-battery condition is preventable by not doing a press-check, then it's equally preventable by simply including a thump to the backplate when conducting whichever press-check one elects to do.

Is somebody frequently finger-banging their blaster to do a press-check without having had to go though a load/make ready or had it leave their possession...? That's not a dumb task, but their thoughts on how to apply it are dumb. Ish, at least...

[Mysteryman]

As with virtually any seemingly arbitrary method related to manual-of-arms, no, the act itself is not retarded.

Doing so on the basis of something like "we've always done it this way" without being able to articulate WHY it's done that way is retarded. Making excuses, vice providing reasons, is retarded.

If I'm gonna throw brickbats over HOW somebody conducts a press-check, my question would be "why do it visually AT ALL, when you can do it digitally under ANY lighting condition and produce equally reliable results?" That's boilerplate, to me, for a lot of things that folks say "...visually AND digitally/tactilely inspect..." If I can satisfy the desired endstate of a given task without bothering to look, why would I look? So, I don't look any more, and I apply that to a lot of tasks where the visual component can be done digitally, instead.

If an out-of-battery condition is preventable by not doing a press-check, then it's equally preventable by simply including a thump to the backplate when conducting whichever press-check one elects to do.

Is somebody frequently finger-banging their blaster to do a press-check without having had to go though a load/make ready or had it leave their possession...? That's not a dumb task, but their thoughts on how to apply it are dumb. Ish, at least...

I agree. If you're gonna do a press check, use a method that works in all conditions.

The value of a press check is zero. It's extra handling that isn't necessary, and extra handling that is only ever done in an administrative environment. Extra handling is extra steps to learn, remember, and master. It also introduces potential for OOB issues. If you're unsure if the firearm is loaded why not execute an IA and TAP RACK? It's what you will do under stress if the gun fails to fire, so why would it not be applicable if you're unsure IF the gun is loaded? The ejected round can be reloaded or simply ignored.

[GTF425]

Personally, I consider verifying the status of a weapon as part of a PCC/PCI. Same as conducting radio checks, checking lights and lasers, opening my aid bag and verifying equipment placement, etc. I've always done it visually, be it under red light at departure airfield or otherwise. I have never been in an environment that I wouldn't have loaded my weapon and verified its status prior to losing the ability to use (at the least) a headlamp. I am not that much of a ninja and my safety is not my finger.

I do not do press checks of any kind after reloads. It either goes bang or it does not. I'm more concerned with making sure the magazine is fully seated than anything else. Given the overwhelming majority of my reloads have been "admin" (or whatever the term is now), I rarely even have an empty chamber.

Press checks are simple enough and really have no consequence if you do them correctly. Some people overdo it for sure, but if we're talking a quick peek in the chamber before heading out the door for the day or going 10-8, then that's just another form of a PCC. Ensure the pistol returned to battery and you're good to go. If it's an AR, tap the forward assist after, close the dust cover, and move on.

Ritualistically press checking before every single course of fire or before holstering is just theatrics.

[Trihonda]

Personally, I consider verifying the status of a weapon as part of a PCC/PCI. Same as conducting radio checks, checking lights and lasers, opening my aid bag and verifying equipment placement, etc.

I spoke with a couple of guys at work, who do press checks every shift. They are relatively new officers, and both ex military guys. They explained their press check habits were a spill over from the military. They explained that there was always two different weapon status depending on whether they were “inside the fence” or “outside the fence”. And that constantly having to chamber and unload their weapons was a thing... so it was SOP to press check and verify all the time, almost an “anxiety” or fear of going in or out of the fence with the wrong weapon status.

I personally don’t experience any anxiety about the status of my duty weapon, as it’s always in the “outside the fence” mode. Always loaded. Always, except for when I qualify with it. When I’m done qualifying and cleaning my duty weapon, it gets verified it’s loaded, and placed back into my holster. I do this meticulously and deliberately and it is always ready to go. I have zero anxiety about this, and find it fascinating that others are continually worried about their duty weapons mysteriously unloading themselves from one shift to another. Just my take, and I recognize there are other takes, and that’s ok.

I suppose the reason I made this thread was because I was called negligent by some relatively newer officer, for failing to put press checking into my daily routine.. I take work safety, tactics, and training very seriously. I’m not some old fuddy duddy grouchy old “near retirement” stuck in his ways cop. I’m a tactics and use of force instructor, and instruct on a good number of police topics in my department, as well as the nearby tech school police academy. I’ve also been a FTO at work for many years, and preach against complacency. And I have never been taught or taught anyone the concepts of press checks. As I’ve said, I didnt even know it was a thing until seeing these tacticool guys on YouTube a few years ago... it’s not something taught in the police academy, it’s not something taught at my agency, so I find it hard to accept my routine as negligent. It’s not to say we can’t be better as a profession, and I welcome new techniques and safety practices, but I haven’t seen anyone present an argument here that shows I’m being negligent. And finally, 98% of the cops in my area use Glocks, and you can verify the status of your chamber several ways without manipulation of your slide... Press checks just seem unnecessary (in MY situation).

[GTF425]

I spoke with a couple of guys at work, who do press checks every shift. They are relatively new officers, and both ex military guys. They explained their press check habits were a spill over from the military.

That's a good point, too. I came from units where I had to clear my weapon after coming off of patrol or off of a mission. We would chamber a round before heading out, and part of my PCCs was to verify that my equipment was ready to rock. Some units did not have this restriction, and we also did not clear our weapons when working out of a Platoon COP in a shithole of Paktika. In those cases, I knew my rifle was loaded and I didn't **** with it.

In my current life, my EDC and nightstand pistols both live with a round chambered and I don't mess with them. I know they're loaded, and they stay in holsters because of this. My SRT gear is staged in my trunk, and whenever I get a call out, I'll make ready similarly to how I did when I was in the Army. When we wrap up, I clear my weapons and store them.

I wouldn't call someone negligent for not doing a press check, just like I wouldn't call someone a retard for choosing to do one. I believe it's got a place and is just another tool in the toolbox.