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Thread: Why no double barrel "firearms" similar to shockwave/tac-14?

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondback View Post
    What would a PGO-and-VFG side-by-side at 18.5" barrel/26" OAL look like, anyway?

    I believe the Sicilian name for an 8-10" SxS is a lupara... problem with a lupara or a howdah is you only get one or two shots, great if you get the first or last hit in but not so much if the other guy still wants to play after you've run out. I'd probably go with a reduced-recoil deer slug load...
    Mini shell slugs would likely be a better choice. 2-3/4" Managed recoil slugs are babies in a pump compared to full power slugs, but I think would still be a recoil wallop in a break action with pistol grip and potential to lose teeth if brought up to eye level.

  2. #12
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    A double barrel shotgun (or rifle) with double triggers pretty much guarantees a second shot, which is not true of any repeater. Third and fourth shots are going to take a little time, of course.

    Andy

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyLate View Post
    A double barrel shotgun (or rifle) with double triggers pretty much guarantees a second shot, which is not true of any repeater. Third and fourth shots are going to take a little time, of course.

    Andy
    I've seen people reload an over under faster than most people can top off a mag tube.

  4. #14
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    A lupara makes a lot of sense if you live someplace where the most likely firearm to be encountered that isn't another lupara is a 22-, 25-, or 32-caliber Browning or pocket revolver.

    But I think when you're more likely to face opponents using 10+ round 9mm, 40-, 45-caliber modern autoloaders, 4-to-8-round pump and automatic shotguns, subguns, and carbines, it loses a lot of appeal.

    As to why we haven't really seen any double-barrel "firearms"... I would guess it's partially because almost all double-barrel shotguns are imported. The ones that are not are quite expensive, and anyone who could afford one would almost certainly have spent a small fraction of that money on acquiring a more modern, generally better defensive weapon. The OAL-to-barrel length is probably not a winning proposition and the thing would still be illegal almost everywhere the Mossberg Shockwave and Remington Tac-14 are.

    I think it would be cool if someone made one, but I don't know why I (or anyone else) would acquire one instead of a Shockwave, Tac-14, or similar - unless someone just wanted a cool toy (sort of the same thing as with an SBS'd o/u or "coach gun").
    " Nil desperandum - Never Despair. That is a motto for you and me. All are not dead; and where there is a spark of patriotic fire, we will rekindle it. "
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  5. #15
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    Like I said in the OP, I don't think they would actually be all that practical. I'm just suprised someone like Stoeger isn't selling these alongside the coach guns.

    I don't want one. If I were to have one it would be a toy. The doubles market is pretty high end. Making one yourself would be $$$, for the cost of the gun plus 200 for the form one (since you can't make the "loophole" compliant version from a shotgun)

    I suppose if you wanted to make it really exiting you could make one from an old black powder double. Then every shot would be a guessing game of "will it fire, or blow up in my face?"

    I guess on second thought, could such a thing even be imported? Does the sporting clause eliminate the possibility?

    ETA:

    Personally I'll stick with my 590 over a "Mad Max" it was just a point of curiosity.
    Last edited by utahjeepr; 11-30-20 at 10:32.
    Not high speed, low drag. More like ten under, blinker on.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by okie View Post
    I've wondered this, as well. Double barrels actually start to make a lot of sense when you go down below 14 inches. Since they don't have an action, you can get the overall length very short, with relatively long barrels. And when you're talking about a gun that short, competing pump actions only hold one or two more rounds and are heavier and not too wieldy or easy to pump.

    Now I wouldn't do it to a "firearm," though. It would kick like a mule and you couldn't aim it. Basically be a breaching tool and nothing else at that point.

    But I would absolutely SBS a double barrel and cut those barrels to around 8-10 inches, and take a good bit off the LOP, as well. In fact, if I were to ever SBS something, that's what I would do. Fact is, a shotgun can't hold a candle to a Mk18 for raw killing power in close quarters. But if I could get something significantly shorter and lighter than a Mk18 that had significantly more power than a pistol-well who wouldn't want that?

    Here's a prime example:



    The overall length is about the same as something like a Serbu, but the barrels are several inches longer, and it only sacrifices one round in terms of capacity. You also have to take into account that you don't have to pump that round into the chamber, which is a very tangible benefit considering the poor ergonomics of pump actions that short, and the poor reliability of semi autos with barrels that short.

    You can also well imagine how short it would be if the barrels were cut down to the 6 inches of the Serbu style shotguns.
    It's true shotgun pellets start dropping velocity quickly below about 14 inches of barrel length.

    I like the idea of a double used for defense as long as its backed up by a pistol. Odds are a shot or two from the double will fix the problem and a reload is certainly possible. (Faster and easier than a revolver reload IMO)

    But if there isnt enough time to reload dropping it once empty and drawing a pistol is faster and easier.

    I really like the Yildiz doubles made in Turkey. Auto-ejectors toss hulls out, the firing mechanism is more reliable than the Stoeger, the safety does NOT auto-engage like most doubles, pulling the trigger twice is simple, and they dont cost much.

    Doubles are nice and short because they dont have the 7 inch long receiver of a pump. So a 24 inch double is about the same length as an 18 inch pump AND the double easily takes down in half for easy transport or storage.

    They also have changable chokes if that's important to you. The Yildiz guns usually come with 5 chokes and a tool.

    I have a 20 ga youth I'm tempted to cut down but I probably wont. It has 24 inch barrels and the stock is already nice and short. Still, would be pretty neat to cut off about 10 inches of barrel. I could cut almost 6 with no papers and it would be about 6 inches shorter than an 18 inch pump already.

    I find SxS's easier to reload quickly but O/U better for shooting. I think the rest of the world agrees with that.
    Last edited by Ron3; 12-10-20 at 10:00.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron3 View Post
    It's true shotgun pellets start dropping velocity quickly below about 14 inches of barrel length.

    I like the idea of a double used for defense as long as its backed up by a pistol. Odds are a shot or two from the double will fix the problem and a reload is certainly possible. (Faster and easier than a revolver reload IMO)

    But if there isnt enough time to reload dropping it once empty and drawing a pistol is faster and easier.

    I really like the Yildiz doubles made in Turkey. Auto-ejectors toss hulls out, the firing mechanism is more reliable than the Stoeger, the safety does NOT auto-engage like most doubles, pulling the trigger twice is simple, and they dont cost much.

    Doubles are nice and short because they dont have the 7 inch long receiver of a pump. So a 24 inch double is about the same length as an 18 inch pump AND the double easily takes down in half for easy transport or storage.

    They also have changable chokes if that's important to you. The Yildiz guns usually come with 5 chokes and a tool.

    I have a 20 ga youth I'm tempted to cut down but I probably wont. It has 24 inch barrels and the stock is already nice and short. Still, would be pretty neat to cut off about 10 inches of barrel. I could cut almost 6 with no papers and it would be about 6 inches shorter than an 18 inch pump already.

    I find SxS's easier to reload quickly but O/U better for shooting. I think the rest of the world agrees with that.
    That's true, but it's still significantly more powerful than other options in that size category, such as a 9mm SBR with a 5 inch barrel, like the SP5K for example. As far as PDWs in that size go, it's the only truly powerful option you have. Even an AR PDW with a 5-7 inch barrel is only a glorified 5.7 at that point, plus has all the other issues associated with barrel lengths that short.

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