US Army looking at squad size

[seb5]

I've wondered if the Army's squad size was more an issue of the vehicles available than anything else. It's also a way to have more senior personnel.

And another thought,

In a perfect world the USMC squad leader is an E-5 and E-4's are the 3 fire team leaders.

In the Army a Squad Leader is an E-6 with E-5's as the 2 fire team leaders.

So in the end the USMC Squad Leader has more personnel, more fire teams, and gets paid less!

[SeriousStudent]

I've wondered if the Army's squad size was more an issue of the vehicles available than anything else. It's also a way to have more senior personnel.

And another thought,

In a perfect world the USMC squad leader is an E-5 and E-4's are the 3 fire team leaders.

In the Army a Squad Leader is an E-6 with E-5's as the 2 fire team leaders.

So in the end the USMC Squad Leader has more personnel, more fire teams, and gets paid less!

Agreed, but I want muh stripe. I spent a year as a Marine rifle squad leader when I was a Corporal.

[lysander]

The history of the US Army Squad organization is and interesting study.

From 1920 the Infantry Squad was eight men:

1 - Corporal
2 - Riflemen
1 - Auto rifleman
1 - Auto Rifle Assistant
1- Grenadier

If that sound a little light, there were two squads in a section and two sections in a platoon.

In 1939, the wartime organization of the squad was eleven riflemen, a Corporal and a Sergeant. The section had been removed as a unit and there were four squads in the platoon, three rifle squads and one automatic rifle squad that had 4 BARs, each with two assistants. There was at this time a big push to remove the BARs completely from the platoon and just having 4 rifle squads.

After much debate, experimentation, and arguing, what eventually happened was the Automatic Rifle squad was broken up and three BARs put back in the rifle squads, three riflemen were kicked out reducing the number of riflemen to 8, so with the BAR-man and his assistant, the Corporal and the Sergeant, the total men in the squad aws 12, and the platoon strength dropped by an entire squad (the Automatic Rifle squad).

There were many minor changes made throughout the war, mainly assigned roles of personnel in the squad and their paygrade, and weapons issued.

The draw down after WW2, the squad was reorganized to nine men: a Staff Sergeant, a Sergeant, a Corporal (BAR), 6 privates (one is the assistant BAR-man, one had an M1C or M1D, and one has a grenade launcher). Again minor changes in weapon issue and paygade for the various positions ensued over the years.

In 1956, there was a major reorganization: The introduction of the "Fire Team".

The structure was now:
1 Sergeant First Class*
2 Sergeants (team leaders)
2 Corporals (BARs)
3 Corporals (senior riflemen)
1 Corporal (M1D)
3 Privates First Class (riflemen)

This was organized in two Fire Teams of five men and a "command group" of the SFC and the Scout (the M1D).

In 1959, the Corporal with the M1D was eliminated, the BAR and M1 were replaced by the M14 (as they became available).

The ROAD squad of 1964:
1 Staff Sergeant
2 - Sergeants (team Leaders)
2 - SP-4 Automatic Riflemen (M14A1)
2 Grenadiers (M14 with M76, later an M79 "Blooper")
3 Privates, or PFCs (M14s)

They dropped one man from the squad. Why, so a squad could fit in an M113, which could only hold ten passengers.

Technically, this is the squad organization used throughout Vietnam, however, attrition, lack of replacements, and other issues jumbled up what people actually had in their squad, as well as the weapons issued.

In 1973 the eleventh man returned to the light infantry squad, and the armored infantry was organized around a M113 with a driver and track commander (TC), and eight man dismount element, and a Squad Leader.

The Division 86 squad was largely organized around the M2 Bradley, and the limits imposed by its passenger capacity of nine. The armored infantry squad was the three man Bradley crew with the Bradley commander the squad leader and a six man dismount element. This didn't work all that well, as the squad leader had to dismount and render the Bradley out of action, or stay in the Brad and not be able to direct the dismounts, so the platoon personnel was shuffled, so instead of four squads of one Bradley each, they had two squads of two Bradleys, with each carrying a fire team. This also made the dismount organization the same as the light infantry squad organization.

Here, I end the post as it is far longer than I planned, and this is the division organization I am most familiar with.




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* This is before the introduction of E-8 and E-9, the Army had eliminated the rank of Staff Sergeant back in 1952, and had three Private ranks (E-1 to E-3), Corporal (E-4), Sergeant (E-5) , Sergeant First Class (E-6), and Master/First Sergeant (E-7)

[ABNAK]

Agreed, but I want muh stripe. I spent a year as a Marine rifle squad leader when I was a Corporal.

An Army platoon sergeant is an E-7 slot. In the Marines it's an E-6 slot. Therefore it would make sense that the ranks below (i.e. squad leaders and team leaders) would be scaled accordingly.

[RHINOWSO]

An Army platoon sergeant is an E-7 slot. In the Marines it's an E-6 slot. Therefore it would make sense that the ranks below (i.e. squad leaders and team leaders) would be scaled accordingly.

So you are saying it's just like medals with Marines? Bump whatever you see them wearing up 1 level to make it equivalent to the Army?

Makes sense.

I've always used a +2 number for the USAF, however.