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Thread: 308 Tack Driver

  1. #1
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    308 Tack Driver

    I'm looking to pick up a new 308 gas gun. I had a SCAR 17 but was fortunate to unload it in the current climate for a nice profit. I never really fell in love with that gun. I was always looking for something with more accuracy. Although I could do sub MOA with GMM any other ammo was 1.5MOA at best. I understand that it was not intended for a DMR roll.

    To start, I have no issue spending SR25 money. I am looking for a DMR type rifle - very accurate (.75MOA or tighter) but could roll into a battle rifle if needed. I am a .75 MOA shooter and can do .5 on good days. I would like a gun accurate enough to learn with.

    In pretty much all instances I would build an AR15 to my spec but in the AR10 world I would prefer to buy a built gun.

    My short list:
    SR25 APC - gold standard but I dont know if the accuracy is there. I routinely hear 1-1.5 MOA but also hear of .66 test targets.

    PredatOBR 7.62 - has the benefit of Switchblock like gas block, they used to be supper accurate, cant seem to get good recent intel but they still have a 6 month backorder.

    V7 Harbinger - I have a custom Recce built with a V7 barrel and it is .5 MOA shooter. The Harbinger is too light in my opinion at 6.5lbs but it would be easy to add weight and it would be just awesome to have a gun with optics under 9lbs. Not a lot of data on his 308 barrels.

    GAP 10 - this is something that gets mentioned over on the Hide a lot. Never seen one in real life and would need to see how much they weight but are supposed to be insanely accurate.

    Build a gun - seems like you could throw together a solid AR10 with the right components and send it to someone like Steve at Citizen Arms and it would be a shooter. But then it is a franken gun that you would never get your money out of. There is never an issue selling a Knights or Larue gun for what you paid for it.

    Guns I am not looking at:
    The LMT MWS - its just too heavy once you add optics. Awesome gun but not what I am looking for
    JP lrp-07 - these shoot lights out but I dont think they could be anything other than a bench shooter.

    Thoughts? Any guns I am missing?

  2. #2
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    I shoot an accurized AR match almost monthly in the heavy metal division. In fact tomorrow is the first time I am shooting the match with a 556 gun. A few of my observations:

    1: 308 gas guns are hard to get better than 1.5 MOA. I had a savage MSR10 in 308 and showed my buddy who is a Green beret with 20 years in. He said their SR25's could never do better. It's not the the guns CANT shoot better than 1.5 moa, its just HARD to do with factory ammo. My other buddy who rocks a home brewed AR10 only shoots hand loads to get sub moa accuracy.

    2: 6.5 really is better than 308. As soon as I switched from a 308 to a 6.5 MSR10, my groups shrunk. I could make 1.5 moa all day long with cheap Seller and bellot FMJ, and when I switched to hornady ELDM it could make 1 moa groups at will. I cant share pictures because of my shadow ban on imgur.

    3: I had some serious issues dealing with savage. Even though my MSR10 is a tack driver now I will not recommend them as a brand. Out of your list I would personally roll my own, or go with the Larue kit. I have seen a Larue gun in person and it performed very well and the owner had PILES of ammo through it. The other off the rack gun I would l look at is a DDV7. I just have yet to actually meet a KAC owner that could brag about their group size, or do it on command.
    Tactical Nylon Micro Brewery

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    I tend to stay away from anything that requires proprietary stuff as much as possible. That ruled out the Savage and S&W M&P10 for me (proprietary charging handle and BCG iirc), not sure about the Larue (never bothered to check to be honest) and things like the DPMS G2 (proprietary everything, not to mention it's a DPMS lol). The KAC has some proprietary parts (bolt and barrel extension, iirc) but in the case of the KAC the benefits are worth it.

  4. #4
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    Citizen Arms.
    AQ planned for years and sent their A team to carry out the attacks, and on Flight 93 they were thwarted by a pick-up team made up of United Frequent Fliers. Many people look at 9/11 and wonder how we can stop an enemy like that. I look at FL93 and wonder, "How can we lose?". -- FromMyColdDeadHand

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    IMHO, its very hard to be concerned with weight and get a AR10 gasser. They are beefy by nature. I have MWS in 308 and 6.5cm. My Colt CM is one of the lighter guns like KAC or DD, but its still hefty.

    If MOA is a concern, I agree TurnB, the 6.5 is more inherently accurate in my extensive work with both. YMMV. Buy a KAC in 6.5 and celebrate greatness if you have the corn$$pile.

    PB
    "Air Force / Policeman / Fireman / Man of God / Friend of mine / R.I.P. Steve Lamy"

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    weight should not be a concern here

    KAC and LMT websites list roughly a pound between them. If a pound prevents you from looking at one vs another then stick to the 15. My 14yr old son shoots the mws standing. I will never understand this fascination with weight when 99% of the people shoot from a bench

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    Quote Originally Posted by RUTGERS95 View Post
    weight should not be a concern here

    KAC and LMT websites list roughly a pound between them. If a pound prevents you from looking at one vs another then stick to the 15. My 14yr old son shoots the mws standing. I will never understand this fascination with weight when 99% of the people shoot from a bench
    Preach!
    AQ planned for years and sent their A team to carry out the attacks, and on Flight 93 they were thwarted by a pick-up team made up of United Frequent Fliers. Many people look at 9/11 and wonder how we can stop an enemy like that. I look at FL93 and wonder, "How can we lose?". -- FromMyColdDeadHand

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    Quote Originally Posted by RUTGERS95 View Post
    weight should not be a concern here

    KAC and LMT websites list roughly a pound between them. If a pound prevents you from looking at one vs another then stick to the 15. My 14yr old son shoots the mws standing. I will never understand this fascination with weight when 99% of the people shoot from a bench
    Weight is a concern here. I have a list of requirements. One of the requirements is I dont want a gun over 9lbs. Why would I sell one of the lightest weight 308s in the game to replace it with a heavy rifle that I am immediately going to put at least a 1.5lbs of optics on?

    The gun will be used to shoot paper and shoot at distance but it will also be used for classes and I have absolutely no desire to carry a 12-13lb riffle around all day especially when I said I have the money to not be forced to do that.

    Do you have any experience with any of the rifles listed? Anything else to add? Or are you just going to talk about the one gun that you have that doesn't fill my requirements and your 14yr old likes?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnburglar View Post
    I shoot an accurized AR match almost monthly in the heavy metal division. In fact tomorrow is the first time I am shooting the match with a 556 gun. A few of my observations:

    1: 308 gas guns are hard to get better than 1.5 MOA. I had a savage MSR10 in 308 and showed my buddy who is a Green beret with 20 years in. He said their SR25's could never do better. It's not the the guns CANT shoot better than 1.5 moa, its just HARD to do with factory ammo. My other buddy who rocks a home brewed AR10 only shoots hand loads to get sub moa accuracy.

    2: 6.5 really is better than 308. As soon as I switched from a 308 to a 6.5 MSR10, my groups shrunk. I could make 1.5 moa all day long with cheap Seller and bellot FMJ, and when I switched to hornady ELDM it could make 1 moa groups at will. I cant share pictures because of my shadow ban on imgur.

    3: I had some serious issues dealing with savage. Even though my MSR10 is a tack driver now I will not recommend them as a brand. Out of your list I would personally roll my own, or go with the Larue kit. I have seen a Larue gun in person and it performed very well and the owner had PILES of ammo through it. The other off the rack gun I would l look at is a DDV7. I just have yet to actually meet a KAC owner that could brag about their group size, or do it on command.
    I appreciate the info. 6.5 is on list but I am currently sitting on a nice pile of 308 including a lot of GMM. In the current climate I dont want to get into another caliber if I dont have to.

    6.5 may be one of the nice options about the Laure and its ability to swap barrels like the MWS (although its toolless on the Larue). I have read of a few getting custom 6.5 barrels for their Larue. He also sells the PredatOBR in 6.5 so an upper or getting a barrel from them may be possible in the future.

  10. #10
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    At the risk of getting push back...

    One more plug for the LMT but with the mlock upper and lightweight barrel. If you don’t like the lightweight barrel from LMT you can send any barrel you prefer and send it here http://www.dwilsonmfg.com/ and he will convert to the mrp pattern. This should get you right at 9lbs or just below.

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