Shop to rebarrel a Saiga 7.62x39?

[nincomp]

I have circa-2000 Saiga 7.62x39 rifle. I made the mistake of tinkering with it after taking muscle relaxants for a back injury and managed to damage the chamber. I am aware that the journal sizes for this rifle are different than for a normal AK47 so I know that the new barrel will probably need to be turned down from a blank. Can anyone recommend a shop who would do this kind of thing?

I figure that as long as the shop will need to start with a blank, it might as well be a good one. Since the idea of a "precision" Saiga 7.62x39 is pretty entertaining, I plan to use a "match quality" blank. Who's barrel would you guys suggest? No, I don't expect bugholes at 300m with the thing, but it will be interesting to see what the platform will be able to do with a good barrel.
Thanks

[Steve Shannon]

I have circa-2000 Saiga 7.62x39 rifle. I made the mistake of tinkering with it after taking muscle relaxants for a back injury and managed to damage the chamber. I am aware that the journal sizes for this rifle are different than for a normal AK47 so I know that the new barrel will probably need to be turned down from a blank. Can anyone recommend a shop who would do this kind of thing?

I figure that as long as the shop will need to start with a blank, it might as well be a good one. Since the idea of a "precision" Saiga 7.62x39 is pretty entertaining, I plan to use a "match quality" blank. Who's barrel would you guys suggest? No, I don't expect bugholes at 300m with the thing, but it will be interesting to see what the platform will be able to do with a good barrel.
Thanks

You don’t say what the damage is, but take it to a decent gunsmith and get a professional opinion. Damage to a chamber might be able to be repaired without replacing the barrel.
And please don’t mess with guns while using any substance that can alter your judgement. Mistakes with guns are sometimes not something that can be fixed.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[JoshNC]

I made the mistake of tinkering with it after taking muscle relaxants for a back injury and managed to damage the chamber.

Uh, what? How did you damage the chamber? What exactly did you do?

[nincomp]

Uh, what? How did you damage the chamber? What exactly did you do?

It is a bit of a complicated story. I guess that I should note that I had always thought about rebarreling this rifle, but the damaged chamber was the final straw that has convinced me to do it. It is important to note that this happened around 15 years ago, when men were men and Saiga's were cheap. My memory is a little hazy. One of the problems with medications that affect judgement is that, well, your judgement is affected. At the time, I did not realize that I was impaired (this is part of why I am disabled, the meds from one injury put me into the good ole' "hey y'all, watch this" mode* and I further damaged my back trying to lift something that was much too heavy.)

There is damage at the neck and throat area from a drill bit. A gunsmith said that it was "probably OK", but did not test fire it. This particular rifle did not have a normal 7.62x39 chamber to begin with. It has the "stepped-neck" chamber used on some early Saiga's. The first half of the neck is a larger diameter before it steps down to the final diameter at the end. This damages brass so much upon firing that it cannot be reloaded. My understanding is that factory did this to civilian 7.62x39 rifles for a while to easily differentiate between genuine civilian weapons and stolen military ones. The issue is that the whole reason for buying this rifle was to try to try to develop a very accurate load for it, and this would involve reloading. Since the brass could only be used once, I had doubts about the project from the beginning.

As I recall, I was slugging the barrel with lead fishing weights. I wanted to know the exact land and groove diameter. As it turns out the barrel of this particular Saiga has significant diameter reductions beneath the gas block and trunion, in other words, the places where interference fits squeezed it. Unfortunately, I used a wooden dowel to drive the lead slug down the barrel. The slug jammed at one of the constrictions and as I pushed harder, the wooden dowel split on the diagonal - jamming it in the barrel. After a couple of days trying to clear the barrel, I finally drilled it out from the receiver end. Although I was trying to be careful, the drill bit nicked the relatively sharp "step" in the neck and hit the throat.

For this to make a little more sense, it is important to note that this all occurred when Saiga's were $199 and did not have the reputation that they now have. The Saiga was literally the same price as a HiPoint carbine. i bought one of each at a gun show for a project. The whole idea was to get the least expensive semi-autos available and see what I could do to improve their accuracy. This led to slugging the barrels, seeing what bullets could get close to the lands, etc. Rebarreling the Saiga was an option from day-1. Hell, I even bought a 7.62x39 reamer. Unfortunately, a disabling injury prevented me from continuing the project.


*For those unfamiliar with this, the very last words uttered by many southern boys is "Hey y'all, watch this!" Other times, it is "Hold my beer while I try something".

[Bret]

I am aware that the journal sizes for this rifle are different than for a normal AK47 so I know that the new barrel will probably need to be turned down from a blank.

You don't indicate whether you want to keep the same barrel components or not. Regardless, I'm sure there is a barrel out there that will work. If it's just a matter of the barrel journal being 22mm (I'm not sure that it is), then a 23mm barrel can be turned down. Generally, people just buy a rear sight block, gas block and front sight that have journal sizes that match the barrel. There are a couple of different types of Saigas. Some are based on the AKM pattern and others are based on the AK74 pattern. Measure the barrel diameter at its journal and let us know what you have.

I figure that as long as the shop will need to start with a blank, it might as well be a good one. Since the idea of a "precision" Saiga 7.62x39 is pretty entertaining, I plan to use a "match quality" blank. Who's barrel would you guys suggest?

7.62x39 can be an accurate round if you reload. However, I doubt an AK is going to be the vehicle for that even if you have an expensive custom barrel made for it. If it will fit, I'd recommend one of the Polish cold hammer forged barrels that Arms of America sells.

Can anyone recommend a shop who would do this kind of thing?

At the top of my list would be Two Rivers Arms and Piece of History Firearms.

[JoshNC]

It is a bit of a complicated story. I guess that I should note that I had always thought about rebarreling this rifle, but the damaged chamber was the final straw that has convinced me to do it. It is important to note that this happened around 15 years ago, when men were men and Saiga's were cheap. My memory is a little hazy. One of the problems with medications that affect judgement is that, well, your judgement is affected. At the time, I did not realize that I was impaired (this is part of why I am disabled, the meds from one injury put me into the good ole' "hey y'all, watch this" mode* and I further damaged my back trying to lift something that was much too heavy.)

There is damage at the neck and throat area from a drill bit. A gunsmith said that it was "probably OK", but did not test fire it. This particular rifle did not have a normal 7.62x39 chamber to begin with. It has the "stepped-neck" chamber used on some early Saiga's. The first half of the neck is a larger diameter before it steps down to the final diameter at the end. This damages brass so much upon firing that it cannot be reloaded. My understanding is that factory did this to civilian 7.62x39 rifles for a while to easily differentiate between genuine civilian weapons and stolen military ones. The issue is that the whole reason for buying this rifle was to try to try to develop a very accurate load for it, and this would involve reloading. Since the brass could only be used once, I had doubts about the project from the beginning.

As I recall, I was slugging the barrel with lead fishing weights. I wanted to know the exact land and groove diameter. As it turns out the barrel of this particular Saiga has significant diameter reductions beneath the gas block and trunion, in other words, the places where interference fits squeezed it. Unfortunately, I used a wooden dowel to drive the lead slug down the barrel. The slug jammed at one of the constrictions and as I pushed harder, the wooden dowel split on the diagonal - jamming it in the barrel. After a couple of days trying to clear the barrel, I finally drilled it out from the receiver end. Although I was trying to be careful, the drill bit nicked the relatively sharp "step" in the neck and hit the throat.

For this to make a little more sense, it is important to note that this all occurred when Saiga's were $199 and did not have the reputation that they now have. The Saiga was literally the same price as a HiPoint carbine. i bought one of each at a gun show for a project. The whole idea was to get the least expensive semi-autos available and see what I could do to improve their accuracy. This led to slugging the barrels, seeing what bullets could get close to the lands, etc. Rebarreling the Saiga was an option from day-1. Hell, I even bought a 7.62x39 reamer. Unfortunately, a disabling injury prevented me from continuing the project.


*For those unfamiliar with this, the very last words uttered by many southern boys is "Hey y'all, watch this!" Other times, it is "Hold my beer while I try something".

Wow. WECSOG at its finest. I’d just shoot it.

[Lefty223]

I too would shoot it first, you might be surprised. FWIW I treat my Saiga & SKS like they are a 22LR, meaning I’ll take 6-8 different brands to the range w/ me and try them out for groups. My SKS loves Barnual ammo & the Saiga shoots most well, but Golden Tiger the best, at least for ‘bulk’ ammo brands.

When switching brands, I’ll run a few patches on a jag through the bore, dry, then put 5 into the hill before shooting for the next group.

Now I have a LH mini-Mauser bolt action and an AR upper, both in -39mm and they’re both capable of 1-MOA w/ good ammo, aka PMC soft-points, which I use as/in my backup deer rifle.

Good luck & please let us know how you make out!

[nincomp]

As near as I can measure, the barrel journal is 22mm, the rear sight journal about 17.6mm (very little is exposed for measurement), gas block journal 15.5mm, front sight journal is 14.5mm. It appears that the rifle was made in 2004.

Is the centerline of the piston the same height above bore for all AK variants? If I need to buy new rear sight block, gas block, and front sight... would it be possible to use Yugo parts. If I remember correctly, the Yugo barrel is larger diameter. Again, the whole purpose for buying this rifle was to see how accurate it could be. If I end up with another run-of-the-mill barrel, it would probably not be worth the trouble.

I did not get very far with the project but it did not seem promising from the beginning. First, of course, was the discovery of the stepped neck. Secondly, if I remember correctly, when I tried to see what the OAL would be for a bullet to touch the lands, all of the five bullet types I tried fell out of the case before encountering the rifling!

[Bret]

While anything can be made to work if you spend enough money and time, basically the Yugo barrel components will not interchange. I think buying a Polish CHF barrel and having it turned down is your best bet. What about the rest of the conversion? Is your trigger still at the rear of the receiver?

[nincomp]

Is your trigger still at the rear of the receiver?

Yes, but I have polished the surfaces to where it is quite smooth. I originally did a real WECSOG job on it, adding a handgrip (fabricated from a ski pole's handle), modifying the stock and making a trigger shoe. Real Bubba stuff. Remember, it was considered an el-cheapo gun when I bought it. I have since returned it to stock configuration. I haven't been out to shoot for a number of years, but I keep hoping that might change. I was thinking that the challenge of "accurizing an AK variant" might be enough to get me off of my behind and go shooting again. After that, I might convert it, or at least switch to a different stock.

Then again, I have quite a few liberal friends, and I find the thought of having an non-evil-looking variant of the EVIL AK47 to be pretty amusing.

Part of the problem of having a dinged chamber is that I really wouldn't feel good about giving this rifle to someone else. At this point, I don't have much invested in it so it would be no great tragedy to cut up the barrel and treat it as a parts kit, of sorts.