"45 Science" Success. Created from Shotgun Shell.

[DG23]

I'm concerned about the brass as well. I don't necessarily need the brass to be reloadable but a case failure during firing would be an issue.

I cut down a few .308 cases to .892". Drilled to accept 209 primers. The web thickness allows the primer to almost sit flush with the web inside the case. The additional wall thickness is a bonus but the mouth portion of the cases will need to be reamed to accept .45 caliber projectiles.

This would be a Monday morning before coffee type of job for the fine folks at Starline



I tried flaring the cases but the wall thickness at the mouth will need addressed. These cases change the projectiles into little, funny tasting acorns.





Disclaimer;

I'm not a ballastictechnicianguruexternalballisticsavant who has studied the lost mathematics of off world civilizations in a vacuum however my train of thought matches yours.

Balls may be light but... You got a bunch of them. More than I have for sure...

I damn near offered to send you some .308 cases in my last post but obviously incorrectly guessed / assumed the brass thickness would be a bit too much for you. You just proved me wrong about all that!



Willing to donate 25 new pieces of 460 Rowland brass to the cause here if it will assist you any. You will have to trim it to length but... You can trim it to 'fit' your chamber however you wish... That is good (possibly, perhaps, somewhat, but only on days of the week that end in the letter Y).


Thicker in the ass end but not where you seat the bullets 45 brass...

[1168]

I can probably come up with some 762 or 45 or whatever brass if you need some. Let me know.

[Bimmer]

I hope everyone reading this thread realizes this is a VERY bad idea...

I bet you're a lot of fun at a party...

Just the opposite; pressure rises much much faster than velocity for these reasons:
1. Powder burns very progressively, meaning that the burn rate increases exponentially with pressure.
2. Before a projectile begins moving it has to overcome static friction, which is always greater than dynamic friction.
3. The projectile material must be reformed under pressure to fit the leade and then lands and grooves of the barrel rifling.

Again, I'm not a physicist, but...

1. Right.

2. I bet that big primer alone is enough to shove those little 140gr balls halfway down the barrel. Maybe even out the barrel.

Also, 140gr balls gotta have less static friction than 230gr slugs — not only less inertia, but also less bearing surface.

3. Again, less bearing surface, less friction, less pressure.

These cases change the projectiles into little, funny tasting acorns.

Cool.

There's a name for this kind of bullet that "mushrooms" or "muffin tops" over the top of the case, but I forgot it...

.22lr bullets are still this way (look closely), and ".38" revolver rounds used to be, back when they actually used .38 bullets (before they used .36 bullets that fit inside the case).

[AndyLate]

I bet you're a lot of fun at a party...

3.
There's a name for this kind of bullet that "mushrooms" or "muffin tops" over the top of the case, but I forgot it...

.22lr bullets are still this way (look closely), and ".38" revolver rounds used to be, back when they actually used .38 bullets (before they used .36 bullets that fit inside the case).

I don't know, people stopped inviting me.

I'm 100% behind experimenting with round ball loads.

3. Yep, heeled or heel based bullets, where the bullet diameter matches the outside of the case instead of the inside. The .38 S&W was really .38, not .36 and the .44 S&W "American" was .44, not .43 like the .44 S&W Russian/Special/Magnum.

Andy

[Leaveammoforme]

We're there man. We have ammo that cycles in a stock G21.

Today's velocities;
994, 1001, 981, 1021 and 991 FPS.

I shot the first 3 with magazine removed. Extracted cases fell down the magwell. Recoil felt good, not too heavy or light. I put on a cup and inserted an empty magazine. Fired 4th shot and got a slide lock.

I dropped the 5th round in the chamber (been handfeeding in an attempt to avoid any COAL changes). I put one round of WWB in a magazine and inserted the mag. I fired, the pistol completely cycled and chambered the WWB.

Ejected cases landed about 3 feet to my 4 o'clock. The ejection distance and recoil lead me to believe we still have room for more power. The mid-case bulge has become less obvious and more linear with the powder increase. Primer pockets are still tight and brass resized easily.

But honestly, there's no point in pushing this load harder. It shoots soft and will cycle the action. While a 140 grain projectile traveling roughly 1,000 FPS isn't a power house, it ain't no bitch either.

Next step will be some dummy cases with just projectiles installed. I know the G21 will feed them but I will cycle the rounds from the magazine into the chamber multiple times and verify my COAL doesn't change. Hell, we're done if the COAL doesn't change!

"All this is fine and dandy but what good is any of this if the round is wildly inaccurate?"

Left silhouette is .45 Science, right is WWB. 15 yards. The rounds are accurate enough to be effective.




Thanks for the offers of donations but it now appears my brass will be just fine as long as I don't push it. Fun pic for those who don't realize how blown out a .45 case has to be for it to accept a 209 primer. This is why multiple people were concerned with this project.



Don't need lead since each shotgun shell has enough for a couple projectiles but I've crossed some weird bridge in this endeavor. I couldn't help myself when I went to paint the silhouettes. I spent a couple minutes picking up frag and was rewarded with almost 5 pounds of lead. That "Lavender Essence" you smell is because I jacked a candle from my wife for flux.

[Esq.]

6 Months and we are reduced to Pakistani handloading techniques. Great.....I can't wait for the Hoof File and Hi Lux rear Spring based PPSH's covered in green tape.

[Ned Christiansen]

My favorite thread in a long time, just found it! It is
funny
informative
entertaining
and hopefully of no use whatsoever
and scary to contemplate the day "when".

Man I salute your inquisitive.... ness. Very interesting. Might be of interest, once you get "there", to contemplate a little further, along the "what if" lines of running production on a small scale.

....and.... some things that occur to me--

I wonder if something like 7.62X39 empties could be cut off and reformed into .45 bullet jackets. Or maybe the mouth end of Berdan primed .308's or 8mm Mauser. Make the jackets, formed into a RN closed at the tip, open at the base....pour them full of lead, no bullet mold necessary, although cast cores subsequently seated would be good. But in a real Mad Max scenario, making crude bullet molds wold be easy 'nuff.

How about "molding" bullets by mixing the shotgun shot in epoxy and "cold mold" them? Maybe a disc of card loaded under it to help it not come apart in the barrel.

I have joked to friends about the primer shortage: "Glad I have kept all my spent primers over the years, they might actually be worth something soon". Hm..... take out the anvil, press out the firing pin dent, reassemble with a cap in it? Jeez, can you even buy caps any more?

Keep up the theoretical good work!

[Leaveammoforme]

Projectile retention testing complete.

Looks like we are getting about a .030" bite/contact between the case and projectile. Good, bad ...I don't know. Has to be better than if we were getting .025".
PASS!

Light tap on concrete with a kinetic puller shows no projectile movement. Medium smack and projectile dislodged. I've been seating and crimping in two operations. I seated and crimped a few projectiles in one operation to see if there was any benefit. Nope, same results on retention.
PASS!

Loaded 5 dummy's into a mag and cycled them through. Repeated this 6 times. G21 don't care *nom nom nom*. COAL unchanged.
PASS!

Forced a case to nose dive on the feed ramp using my left pinky (least favorite digit, long story) and let the slide fly. COAL dropped .001". Repeated again and COAL dropped another .005". Good to know. Don't fire anything that hangs up.
DATA ACCEPTED!

6 Months and we are reduced to Pakistani handloading techniques. Great.....I can't wait for the Hoof File and Hi Lux rear Spring based PPSH's covered in green tape.

You know...I have a 160 grain mold coming...I could probably find some green powder coat. Whatever shall the 160 grain load be called? "45 Paki" does have a nice ring to it.

....I wonder if something like 7.62X39 empties could be cut off and reformed into .45 bullet jackets. Or maybe the mouth end of Berdan primed .308's or 8mm Mauser. Make the jackets, formed into a RN closed at the tip, open at the base....pour them full of lead, no bullet mold necessary, although cast cores subsequently seated would be good. But in a real Mad Max scenario, making crude bullet molds wold be easy 'nuff.

How about "molding" bullets by mixing the shotgun shot in epoxy and "cold mold" them? Maybe a disc of card loaded under it to help it not come apart in the barrel.....

Hmmm.. I do have a sizer die coming as well. That should really open up some possibilities on projectile manufacturing.

[CrowCommand]

I'm going to say it again. This is gold.

I just received a 4 cavity .45 LRN mold, but waiting until I have a better workspace to cast again.

Sorry if i missed it, are you lubing your balls? Serious question.

[Leaveammoforme]

I'm going to say it again. This is gold.

I just received a 4 cavity .45 LRN mold, but waiting until I have a better workspace to cast again.

Sorry if i missed it, are you lubing your balls? Serious question.

Yes.

Oh, my projectiles? No.

Been giving the bore a good brush after every 5 rounds. I will lube them if I were to load up a box of 50 or so. I plan on attempting to powder coat the 160 RN's so I may try it on the 140 balls as well.