US Capitol Police Have Killed Female Protester, Deploying Tear Gas, Capitol Breached.

[OH58D]

This flat out was not a terrorist attack, in no way, shape or form. This was a peaceful protest, period.

I worked for a period time at Fort Meade, Maryland, then I was assigned to the Pentagon before my final aviation assignment. I've been inside the Capitol Building on numerous occasions. I was a guest of my home Representative for a State of the Union speech by Clinton. Capitol Police are some of the most affable LE you could ever encounter. They deal with tourists all the time, most every day, and they don't have the hard edge a lot of street cops would have.

They have the rank and file officer, then they have their own version of SWAT (which we saw in the shooting video). Then you have the special security details for certain members of Congress. The Speaker's Lobby is a hallway with all the portraits of every Speaker of the House in our history. At the end of that hallway is the actual House of Representatives Chamber. That group of three or four officers at the far end of that hall (one opened fire) could have been one of the special security detail members.

I don't make the rules, but I understand how security works on military bases, and government installations. If you have 45,000 people swarming outside the Capitol, then busting in doors and windows, something bad is bound to happen. Pick your wars and pick your battles. If more had come in close proximity to Congressional members, there would have been more deaths.

[glocktogo]

I worked for a period time at Fort Meade, Maryland, then I was assigned to the Pentagon before my final aviation assignment. I've been inside the Capitol Building on numerous occasions. I was a guest of my home Representative for a State of the Union speech by Clinton. Capitol Police are some of the most affable LE you could ever encounter. They deal with tourists all the time, most every day, and they don't have the hard edge a lot of street cops would have.

They have the rank and file officer, then they have their own version of SWAT (which we saw in the shooting video). Then you have the special security details for certain members of Congress. The Speaker's Lobby is a hallway with all the portraits of every Speaker of the House in our history. At the end of that hallway is the actual House of Representatives Chamber. That group of three or four officers at the far end of that hall (one opened fire) could have been one of the special security detail members.

I just watched my local news and two things jumped out at me. One, there was a Capitol police officer (one of three) flanking the U.S. Rep from the district adjacent to mine. All three were pointing their handguns at the citizens on the other side of the barricade. One of them had his finger on the trigger and he wasn’t even looking in the direction he was pointing it at. That was a ND waiting to happen.

That same rep is saying the sound of breaking glass was misconstrued by the officers as shots fired, so they were obviously panicked.

It wouldn’t surprise me if the deadly shot was a ND, and I’d be perfectly satisfied with a negligent homicide plea if so. But if they try to spin that as justifiable under ROE, then something has to be done about it. They killed an AF veteran who did nothing to deserve getting killed.

[Wake27]

Honestly not taking a side on this one yet but one of the comments made in this thread prompted me to look back at the context of the “tree of liberty” quote. I’m surprised that another one or two lines from this letter isn’t almost equally famous.

That said, I do think this will end up going one of two ways. One is that the people, disgruntled with congress, will be emboldened and continue actions like this which may actually send a message, or more likely, this will be used as a talking point against Trump supporters and the right for years to come and will serve as justification for stricter measures and policies.

“I do not know whether it is to yourself or Mr. Adams I am to give my thanks for the copy of the new constitution. I beg leave through you to place them where due. It will be yet three weeks before I shall receive them from America. There are very good articles in it: and very bad. I do not know which preponderate. What we have lately read in the history of Holland, in the chapter on the Stadtholder, would have sufficed to set me against a Chief magistrate eligible for a long duration, if I had ever been disposed towards one: and what we have always read of the elections of Polish kings should have forever excluded the idea of one continuable for life. Wonderful is the effect of impudent and persevering lying. The British ministry have so long hired their gazetteers to repeat and model into every form lies about our being in anarchy, that the world has at length believed them, the English nation has believed them, the ministers themselves have come to believe them, and what is more wonderful, we have believed them ourselves. Yet where does this anarchy exist? Where did it ever exist, except in the single instance of Massachusets? And can history produce an instance of a rebellion so honourably conducted? I say nothing of it’s motives. They were founded in ignorance, not wickedness. God forbid we should ever be 20. years without such a rebellion.1 The people can not be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. We have had 13. states independant 11. years. There has been one rebellion. That comes to one rebellion in a century and a half for each state. What country before ever existed a century and half without a rebellion? And what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it’s natural manure. Our Convention has been too much impressed by the insurrection of Massachusets: and in the spur of the moment they are setting up a kite to keep the hen yard in order. I hope in god this article will be rectified before the new constitution is accepted.” - Thomas Jefferson in a 1787 (pre-ratification) letter to the son in law of John Adams.


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[OH58D]

I just watched my local news and two things jumped out at me. One, there was a Capitol police officer (one of three) flanking the U.S. Rep from the district adjacent to mine. All three were pointing their handguns at the citizens on the other side of the barricade. One of them had his finger on the trigger and he wasn’t Ben looking in the direction he was pointing it at. That was a ND waiting to happen.

That same rep is saying the sound of breaking glass was misconstrued by the officers as shots fired, so they were obviously panicked.

It wouldn’t surprise me if the deadly shot was a ND, and I’d be perfectly satisfied with a negligent homicide plea if so. But if they try to spin that as justifiable under ROE, then something has to be done about it. They killed an AF veteran who did nothing to deserve getting killed.

I have thought about the ND possibility. Regarding Mrs. Babbitt, her social media posts from Tuesday indicate she was amped up and ready to change things from Dark to Light in the Country. She wanted to participate in something and make a difference.

Probably not the best move to follow rioters into the Capitol after busting in the doors and windows. That Speaker's Lobby had a barricade pushed up against the door and window to prevent access. Somebody busted the window and she chose to crawl up thru that opening (apparently unarmed). I don't think she expected to be shot considering how far she managed to force her way into the building. On the Senate side, the rioters were already swinging from the balcony. They didn't get that far to the House Chamber considering members were still evacuating and there's more bodies in the House than in the Senate. Mrs. Babbitt just went too far at the wrong time.

[jpmuscle]

Special rules are put in place for special circumstances such as a terrorist attack. This was one of them. As the investigation proceeds there could be a release of the radio calls between the command personnel and the armed officers who were the last line of defense between the rioters and the members of congress. It's not specific footage line of defense in feet or yards, but a call made by the officers. In a terrorist attack or any other kind of attack, Capitol Police are not bound by "use of force or 4A constraints".

Please cite for me in the US Code provisions where civilian law enforcement authority of the USCP is suspended and officer discretion is the sole determinant in applying lethal force.

Fun fact 18 U.S. Code § 3056/a provides for no such exemptions and that’s within the constellation of POTUS, Vpotus, etc.

What DoD assets and the authorities they may or may not fall under after the fact is a different story but that’s still way wayyyy down the line on the contingency COOP list




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[FromMyColdDeadHand]

Ashli Babbitt was shot in the front by one of three or four officers at the end of the hallway called the Speaker's Lobby. Congressional members were evacuating the House Chamber at the opposite end of that hallway, and the three or four Capitol Police were the last line of their defense. Had Babbitt made it thru that side window opening, she would have had clear access to members of Congress leaving had the police not intervened.

I guess when the commie mob was after Rand Paul and his wife that didn't count. I suppose that the capitol building is a free fire zone, but not the streets.

Special rules are put in place for special circumstances such as a terrorist attack. This was one of them. As the investigation proceeds there could be a release of the radio calls between the command personnel and the armed officers who were the last line of defense between the rioters and the members of congress. It's not specific footage line of defense in feet or yards, but a call made by the officers. In a terrorist attack or any other kind of attack, Capitol Police are not bound by "use of force or 4A constraints".

I worked for a period time at Fort Meade, Maryland, then I was assigned to the Pentagon before my final aviation assignment. I've been inside the Capitol Building on numerous occasions. I was a guest of my home Representative for a State of the Union speech by Clinton. Capitol Police are some of the most affable LE you could ever encounter. They deal with tourists all the time, most every day, and they don't have the hard edge a lot of street cops would have.

They have the rank and file officer, then they have their own version of SWAT (which we saw in the shooting video). Then you have the special security details for certain members of Congress. The Speaker's Lobby is a hallway with all the portraits of every Speaker of the House in our history. At the end of that hallway is the actual House of Representatives Chamber. That group of three or four officers at the far end of that hall (one opened fire) could have been one of the special security detail members.

I don't make the rules, but I understand how security works on military bases, and government installations. If you have 45,000 people swarming outside the Capitol, then busting in doors and windows, something bad is bound to happen. Pick your wars and pick your battles. If more had come in close proximity to Congressional members, there would have been more deaths.

I know you are the messenger here, but have you seen the actual video? Not exactly a zombie hoard out for blood, and the security proximate to her was doing nothing about her.

Listen, like I said before, I'm all for these new rules of engagement that seem to make is kosher to shoot conservatives, when smoke grenades, pepper balls, and other LTL options were violations of people's rights as they threw bricks and molotov cocktails.

I'm fine with the terrorism being called if a lady with a fanny pack gets with in dozens of yards of "The Speaker of the House'. My wife is the Speaker in our House and if I can neck blast anyone that is unarmed and I deem a potential threat- yee haa, my more realistic use of force should be kosher.

I don't agree with what these demonstrators did, but if getting in a hall near where the SOTH MAY be, then some lives are certainly worth more than others. That doesn't pass the Rand Paul test.

Or are we back to where any call of 'terrorism' validates any govt action, no matter how egregious.

Why didn't the just rack their shotguns?

[glocktogo]

I have thought about the ND possibility. Regarding Mrs. Babbitt, her social media posts from Tuesday indicate she was amped up and ready to change things from Dark to Light in the Country. She wanted to participate in something and make a difference.

Probably not the best move to follow rioters into the Capitol after busting in the doors and windows. That Speaker's Lobby had a barricade pushed up against the door and window to prevent access. Somebody busted the window and she chose to crawl up thru that opening (apparently unarmed). I don't think she expected to be shot considering how far she managed to force her way into the building. On the Senate side, the rioters were already swinging from the balcony. They didn't get that far to the House Chamber considering members were still evacuating and there's more bodies in the House than in the Senate. Mrs. Babbitt just went too far at the wrong time.

Going too far at the wrong time shouldn’t be a death sentence, especially not at the hands of trained professionals. That’s all I’m saying.

[jpmuscle]

Still seems like a really bad idea that was likely encouraged by guys from the other team. I could see SURROUND the Capitol building....maybe. Be seen, be heard, be ANGRY.

In the end, their actions have forced more than a few career politicians to change their position and move to the other side.

Their actions didn’t force a damn thing. Coward cuck traitors aka Republicans did that of their own accord.


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[jpmuscle]

I worked for a period time at Fort Meade, Maryland, then I was assigned to the Pentagon before my final aviation assignment. I've been inside the Capitol Building on numerous occasions. I was a guest of my home Representative for a State of the Union speech by Clinton. Capitol Police are some of the most affable LE you could ever encounter. They deal with tourists all the time, most every day, and they don't have the hard edge a lot of street cops would have.

They have the rank and file officer, then they have their own version of SWAT (which we saw in the shooting video). Then you have the special security details for certain members of Congress. The Speaker's Lobby is a hallway with all the portraits of every Speaker of the House in our history. At the end of that hallway is the actual House of Representatives Chamber. That group of three or four officers at the far end of that hall (one opened fire) could have been one of the special security detail members.

I don't make the rules, but I understand how security works on military bases, and government installations. If you have 45,000 people swarming outside the Capitol, then busting in doors and windows, something bad is bound to happen. Pick your wars and pick your battles. If more had come in close proximity to Congressional members, there would have been more deaths.

Which is all well and good but an SME on civilian federal law enforcement authority make you it does not.

And I say that respectfully.


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[glocktogo]

Their actions didn’t force a damn thing. Coward cuck traitors aka Republicans did that of their own accord.


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The US Rep I mentioned above and possibly another or two were the only ones willing to engage the protesters directly. It appears that he actually persuaded them to stop trying to breach the House chamber.

I won’t call him a coward (even though I disagree with his overall assessment of the situation), but the ones I saw cowering behind anything they could get their fat asses behind? Feckless cowards, the lot of them.

I’ve been saying it in my mind for years, but it’s like they’re so immersed in their own power and “specialness”, they can’t even conceive that they’ve been waving a red cape in front of We The People, daring us to do something about it.

Well some days the bull wins, and they just got a taste of it today. My bet is they didn’t learn a damned thing. They don’t understand history at all, and it’s going to get more Americans killed before it’s over.