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Thread: Uberti 1873 Single-Action copies? Good, Bad, or other?

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sid Post View Post
    I've been thinking about getting a classic 1873 Single-Action revolver. I'm not interested in picking up a Ruger FWIW. An original Colt of any generation is easily over $2K so, not cost-effective for me today.

    My understanding is that they can't handle Ruger-only loads safely but, are good to go with standard modern loadings which should duplicate in a general way the 45ACP that so many fanboys love in their 1911's. Subsonic 250gr loads and lighter ~1,000FPS options are what I'm interested in.

    For those who have owned or shot them, how do they compare to other similar options like the Pietta's which I think are distributed by Beretta? A classic 1873 in 44Mag would be ideal for me though, I would most likely run 44SPL+ equivalent or soft 44 Mag loads exclusively if that option came my way.

    What similar options have I possibly overlooked? I'm looking for something easy to load for that has enough power to handle an aggressive dog or possibly a feral hog while being easy to load for with common reloading components and in a modern caliber that isn't likely to be hoarded by new gun owners fearing public unrest, defunding police, general civil unrest, etc.

    Would a black-powder only 1873 or 1858 Remington be a viable option? Black powder pistols are a real unknown to me but, with hoarding or simply ammunition shortages driven by all the new shooters, I occasionally wonder if an 1873/1858 BP revolver would be a reasonable choice as a distant 'second-place' option.

    I will also clarify that this isn't really intended to be a classic 'self-defense' option for me as I have other pistols, rifles and, shotguns that would all be vastly superior for use against any criminal elements or general civil unrest scenarios so those thoughts aren't really a part of my purchase decision today. Dogs and hogs, yes. Bad people, no.

    TIA,
    Sid
    In general, Italian replicas are good quality. Any 1873 or copy is absolutely unsuitable for Ruger-only loads. I doubt any of them are available in .44 Mag.

    Black powder revolvers are viable since you can purchase aftermarket cylinders for them allowing you to shoot centerfire cartridges (.45 Colt out a .44 caliber gun, for example). Pressure levels definitely must be kept to black powder levels, however.

    Any reason you're not interested in a Ruger? They've always been the standard for inexpensive, quality revolvers.

  2. #12
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    I haven't owned or shot any of the Vaqueros old or new so, they are a bit of an unknown. The Blackhawks I owned seemed serviceable but a little rough around the edges. Where I live, finding a Ruger single action is a bit of a unicorn, and online pricing these days is much higher so the leap to a Colt SAA is not that unreasonable. When I owned my Blackhawks, they were relatively low cost and an authentic Colt SAA was easily over $2K.

    Today, a Colt SAA can be found in the ~$1500 range if you are patient which is about twice or a little less than a modern Ruger single-action option. Colt quality and nostalgia with a SAA is hard to beat and today its price is within reach of many potential gun owners as well.

    This has me considering old-school black powder only or more modern cartridge options from Italy which are ~$400 to ~$800 and are popular with the SASS crowd.

    In terms of 'power' and general utility, a black-powder only model has enough "juice" so, Ruger-only load capability might be nice but, isn't needed. Old school black powder might be fun for a change of pace. When 45 Colt loads are scarce for whatever reason, a small ammo can with percussion caps and some black powder and a bullet mold would provide a lot of recreational shooting fun too when 9mm and 22lr are in short supply. However, the convenience of cartridges is really attractive to me.

  3. #13
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    I gave about $1,500 each for my (two) new Colt SAA’s 10-12 years ago so $1,500 really isn’t out of line. As far as the Rugers, I wouldn’t say any of mine (purchased new within the past ten years) are “a little rough around the edges”. We used to joke about the “Ruger Recall-of-the-Month Club” around the squadroom but they’ve really upped their game. Instead of putting their billboard lawyer warning on the side they now put them on the bottom of the barrel. If they have an integral lock, it’s hidden under the grips (and some of mine didn’t come with the lock). I don’t own any Ruger stock but I can recommend their firearms.

  4. #14
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    Hi Sid, I want to mention a few things about the Uberti pistols.
    A - Corporate ownership. Beretta owns Uberti. I think Pietta is still a separate company.
    B - 5 versus 6. The Uberti "Cattleman" version (several models available) has the traditional Colt loading and firing-pin-on-hammer, but it has a significant change to the hammer which make it safe to carry with all six chambers loaded. There is a small hammer block at the base of the hammer, and if you pull the hammer very slightly back from "fully down" then this block is set and prevents the hammer from going forward, no matter how it is struck. The hammer block drops out of the way only if the trigger is held back, meaning it fires when you want it to. I very much like this improvement to the Colt design, but stress that if the shooter doesn't make the effort to arm or set this hammer block, the gun needs to have the hammer down on an empty chamber just like the original.
    C - I am not sure if you are getting some Colt models confused. The 1873 is a cartridge-only revolver and any Italian copy is safe for smokeless powder rounds (but not, as pointed out, the "Ruger only" hunting rounds). The copies of the earlier cap and ball revolvers, such as the 1860, are the ones which are black powder only guns. You can buy extra cartridge cylinders for the cap and ball guns with allow 5 shots (smokeless or BP, your choice) instead of the six you get with the C&B cylinder. There are some cap and ball versions of the 1873 on the market but those are just wrong, in an historical sense. And then I do have to mention that there is a repro of the 1872 "Open Top" model which is a pretty accurate copy of Colts' first cartridge .44, which used many C&B parts with a cartridge cylinder.

    Bart Noir

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bart Noir View Post
    Hi Sid, I want to mention a few things about the Uberti pistols.
    A - Corporate ownership. Beretta owns Uberti. I think Pietta is still a separate company.
    B - 5 versus 6. The Uberti "Cattleman" version (several models available) has the traditional Colt loading and firing-pin-on-hammer, but it has a significant change to the hammer which make it safe to carry with all six chambers loaded. There is a small hammer block at the base of the hammer, and if you pull the hammer very slightly back from "fully down" then this block is set and prevents the hammer from going forward, no matter how it is struck. The hammer block drops out of the way only if the trigger is held back, meaning it fires when you want it to. I very much like this improvement to the Colt design, but stress that if the shooter doesn't make the effort to arm or set this hammer block, the gun needs to have the hammer down on an empty chamber just like the original.
    C - I am not sure if you are getting some Colt models confused. The 1873 is a cartridge-only revolver and any Italian copy is safe for smokeless powder rounds (but not, as pointed out, the "Ruger only" hunting rounds). The copies of the earlier cap and ball revolvers, such as the 1860, are the ones which are black powder only guns. You can buy extra cartridge cylinders for the cap and ball guns with allow 5 shots (smokeless or BP, your choice) instead of the six you get with the C&B cylinder. There are some cap and ball versions of the 1873 on the market but those are just wrong, in an historical sense. And then I do have to mention that there is a repro of the 1872 "Open Top" model which is a pretty accurate copy of Colts' first cartridge .44, which used many C&B parts with a cartridge cylinder.

    Bart Noir
    Bart, that's a pretty good summary overall.

    The Black Powder options can be had in cartridge pistols easily enough if you want to stick to 45 Colt and similar rounds. For a cheaper entry price and keeping the 1873 looks, ergonomics, and function the Black Powder only version has some attraction. It's also nice that it doesn't require an FFL in today's craziness with non-responsive FFLs trying to source $50 boxes of surplus 9mm.

    At the moment, I'm thinking I will save up for a real Colt while watching for one to turn up at the common sites. Smokeless cartridges are a nice option even if I choose run some "cowboy" loads occasionally.

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    Have to say that 'carry six' is contrary to the construction of historical guns, and one I'd really rather avoid. Have had Vacqueros, old and new, and they worked fine. The New at least feels like an SAA, and if you are really determined to carry six, they are the way to go. No additional safeties to set, or monkey motion to set them. Just like a modern revolver.
    I've had some SAA clones that had all kinds of silly safeties (to meet the letter of the law), including the two position base pin and the linkage-in-the-hammer. This last is actually pretty neat; the firing pin retreats into the hammer when the trigger isn't pulled. But I wouldn't trust it hammer down on a live round.
    Let there be four clicks, as Col Colt intended, and only five beans in the wheel. Unless you're about to face the Dalton gang....
    I've reloaded blackpowder in cartridges; it is slow slogging with a dipper (rather than a mechanical powder measure). I've a Richards-Mason '51 Navy conversion by Uberti; it seems to tolerate full charge .38 wadcutters. These are loaded to the old 158 RNL standard. Uberti's literature is less than clear about what to shoot thru' the gun, but I surely wouldn't shoot anything hot.
    Moon

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by halfmoonclip View Post
    Have to say that 'carry six' is contrary to the construction of historical guns, and one I'd really rather avoid. Have had Vacqueros, old and new, and they worked fine. The New at least feels like an SAA, and if you are really determined to carry six, they are the way to go. No additional safeties to set, or monkey motion to set them. Just like a modern revolver.
    I've had some SAA clones that had all kinds of silly safeties (to meet the letter of the law), including the two position base pin and the linkage-in-the-hammer. This last is actually pretty neat; the firing pin retreats into the hammer when the trigger isn't pulled. But I wouldn't trust it hammer down on a live round.
    Let there be four clicks, as Col Colt intended, and only five beans in the wheel. Unless you're about to face the Dalton gang....
    I've reloaded blackpowder in cartridges; it is slow slogging with a dipper (rather than a mechanical powder measure). I've a Richards-Mason '51 Navy conversion by Uberti; it seems to tolerate full charge .38 wadcutters. These are loaded to the old 158 RNL standard. Uberti's literature is less than clear about what to shoot thru' the gun, but I surely wouldn't shoot anything hot.
    Moon
    Your thoughts are similar to mine.

    I should note I'm not looking for this to be a primary self-defense pistol so, while it needs to be serviceable, it also doesn't need to have the newest fanciest 'uber' round, after all a 45 Colt with a simple lead projectile certainly worked well in the hands of cavalry and various soldiers until the advent of the 1911 in 45ACP!

    Hand dipping some black powder or Pyrodex into some cases for general plinking and fun is not a big concern either. An ~800FPS ~250gr projectile would work if it was the only thing I had but, to be honest, if I knew I was going to need to shoot vicious dogs or something less likely like a doped-up or meth'ed owner attacking me, I would rather have something more modern.

    For unplanned oh cr@p high pucker factor moments, this past week my S&W M&P Compact 22lr took 2 dogs about 30lbs in a matter of seconds. I wish I had my 45ACP but, that little M&P just disappears so easily in a coat pocket or holster. That took 4 rounds so, a 5-shooter might be a little light but, ~250gr 0.45" vs ~40gr 0.22" would likely yield different results with each shot!

  8. #18
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    Any of the Italian 1873 replicas are safe with modern smokeless powder loads in the caliber they are chambered for. I do not recall having seen an 1873 replica in 44 mag since the old virginian dragoon, which was notably larger than a standard 1873. Even the new ruger vaqueros are not offered in 44 mag, unlike the older versions. Both they and the Italian replicas can be had in 44 spl. I believe the Italian guns are available in 357 mag, I know the rugers are. And, of course, both are available in 45 colt.
    These will all safely use modern, standard, off the shelf ammo, excluding such offerings as buffalo bore, or other "+P" offerings.
    Todays standard 45 colt loads are deliberately kept within safe pressure levels for earlier (after around 1905) colt guns.
    In fact, cci has been loading the speer 200gr "flying ashtray" jhp that was so well known once in 45acp in 45 colt, at about the same velocity as the 45acp load, in their blazer line.
    Of course, any of these calibers can be loaded with black powder. I have loaded many 250-255gr bullets over black in 45 colt, and quite a few 156gr bullets in 357 mag, as I and my wife used to shoot cas.
    As for muzzleloading revolvers, I would stick with an original muzzleloading design. Pietta has been making both 36 and 44 Cal versions for a long time. Out of the box, the 36 cals tend to shoot better, they've been making them much longer, and worked out the bugs. The 44s are OK, but work much better with some tweaking. Especially if you want to run conicals.
    As for upkeep, some of the colt 1873 parts will work in the replicas, some don't. However, several parts places here in the US do carry replica parts, and some even muzzleloader parts. I had no problem keeping cas customers guns up and running.
    If you really want to carry it with six, just get the ruger. Some of the other "liability mods" are interesting, but are all gimmicky to a point, and sometimes have issues.
    Last edited by Gunfixr; 02-09-21 at 19:54.
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  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sid Post View Post
    For unplanned oh cr@p high pucker factor moments, this past week my S&W M&P Compact 22lr took 2 dogs about 30lbs in a matter of seconds. I wish I had my 45ACP but, that little M&P just disappears so easily in a coat pocket or holster. That took 4 rounds so, a 5-shooter might be a little light but, ~250gr 0.45" vs ~40gr 0.22" would likely yield different results with each shot!
    You brag about shooting dogs more than any ATF dude I’ve met.

    Also, I’ve had a couple Italian 73 clones, and they are a ton of fun. I’ve not had any problems. 45 Colt blackpowder is more fun than it should be.
    RLTW

    Former Action Guy
    Disclosure: I am affiliated PRN with a tactical training center, but I speak only for myself. I have no idea what we sell, other than CLP and training. I receive no income from sale of hard goods.

  10. #20
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    You folks loading blackpowder on a regular basis; what is your method?
    I've been loading Trailboss cowboy loads; they are easy to load on the Dillon, and fun to shoot.
    I'd do it more often (even if the gun cleanup is a hassle) if the loading were less of a problem.
    Anyone loading black powder on a progressive? Concerns?
    BTW, these loads (maybe 850'sec in a carbine) knock the living snot out of dangling bowling pins at 35 yards.
    Moon

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