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Thread: Plate carriers which are made overseas.

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by ViniVidivici View Post
    To clarify, properly sewn PALS webbing is then much stronger, as a mounting platform than laser cut, like say the front if an SKD-STT?

    Technical example, not trying to talk crap about SKD. Others have this going too.
    Correct. I just looked up the SKD/First Spear STT; and that's exactly the crap I'm talking about. It is the flat out laziest way to do molle.

    The fact is that all woven fabrics need to have some kind of finishing or they will fray. This is why every single piece of clothing in your closet either had the edges folded over 2 times to create a hem (right way) or the raw edges will be done on a machine called a serger (cheap way). The serger is cool because it can sew a basic seam and finish it all at the same time. This is how almost all T shirts and cheap sweat shirts are made today. When these tactical gear companies are putting laser cut parts; they are literally betting that the edge of the laser cut fabric will not receive a lot of load or stress. This is exactly the opposite mission profile of Molle webbing. The only way it really ends up working at the end of the day is because the interwoven Molly strap will put a lot of stress on the first loop and then dissipate the load over the rest of the loops. I'm sure this method is 'good enough' for most users; but truly isn't built to last.

    When I design and build gear; it's meant for an end user that doesn't have access to the internet or postal service to file a customer service claim.
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  2. #42
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    Well damn, this should be tacked somewhere. It should be common knowledge!

    Laser cut is offered as the new hotness by several companies, as we all know......as if it's the next evolution, "better", touted as being lighter, and lower profile (which it obviously is).

    It's good to its limits.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnburglar View Post
    ...
    4. Laser cutting is terribly misused in this industry. As someone with formal training in garment construction it kills me to see all the exposed laser cutting in high wear and high load bearing areas. Flat out: Laser cutting is the cheapest and easiest and least durable way to make a plate carrier. I have seen multiple Crye JPC's tear on their hypalon shoulder straps and laser cut molle is also garbage. When you see a plate carrier with a lot of laser cutting be weary if it's something you expect to actually last. Using laser cutting to actually cut fabric before sewing is a completely different story, and something I am a huge fan of.....
    Quote Originally Posted by turnburglar View Post
    Correct. I just looked up the SKD/First Spear STT; and that's exactly the crap I'm talking about. It is the flat out laziest way to do molle.
    Ok, hold up there and clarify that for a second, cuz maybe I'm missing something. I was under the impression that, if done well, laser cutting is just fine - case in point, First Spear's been doing that since forever with their carrier (Strandhogg, etc), as has BlueForce, and I've never heard a complaint.
    I have heard of some issues with delamination[?] with some of the cheaper methods/materials.
    So what exactly am I to look out for?
    Is there different angles that laser cutting bears weight better at? For example, if I have standard horizontal laser-molle (FS STT/'Hogg) with a 5lb pouch on it, or the front of a PC with a 5lb placard attached to vertical laser-molle (current edition Ferro Slickster), which is more like to fail if yanked on and abused?

    ... When these tactical gear companies are putting laser cut parts; they are literally betting that the edge of the laser cut fabric will not receive a lot of load or stress. This is exactly the opposite mission profile of Molle webbing. The only way it really ends up working at the end of the day is because the interwoven Molly strap will put a lot of stress on the first loop and then dissipate the load over the rest of the loops. I'm sure this method is 'good enough' for most users; but truly isn't built to last......
    Here's the other question I have - I was under the impression that there are different "versions" of laser-cut when it comes to molle panels. As I mentioned before, one thing I heard was some sort of material issue, where if poor cordura[?] was used, it can delaminate at the cut edge, BUT the correct material/production methods alleviated that. Yes or no?
    I have also seen a couple physically-different versions of laser-cut molle - the usual slots, and then slots with stitching around them. Is the stitched version somehow better/more reinforced/durable, or simply an attempt to CYA for poor materials and that delam issue?
    There is also the usual straight-slots (FS and most others), and the ones with a a little angled cut at the corner of each slot (Beez and a few others); I'm guessing one of those is probably less durable than the other...?


    Also, I kinda hate you for saying this, because I really like laser-cut for it's less "overt" look/lower profile/less weight than webbing, so my disappointment is measurable and my day is ruined.
    Last edited by Jellybean; 06-01-21 at 23:10.
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  4. #44
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    I think it's kinda funny how both of you mentioned "light weight" and "low profile" as being benefits of laser cut molle. I measured the thickness of the 1" webbing I use for molle at: (0.05") or five hundredths of an inch. Not even one tenth of an inch thick. I didn't bother actually weighing the webbing, but the point stands that the weight and "profile" of molle is inconsequential when the molle isn't in use. And for the record this isn't just me theorizing that laser cut molle is inferior. I have personally seen more than a half dozen "high end" plate carriers have issues with laser cutting. 2 where Crye JPC's that failed in exactly the same spot. The others would always show fraying or pull out on the top molle loop that the wearer used.

    Facts are Facts about business. Gear making is a business and time is always money. Cutting fabric and sewing Molle webbing constitutes a SIGNFICANT portion of my time. Would I like to be able to have all my fabric perfectly cut and Molle all perfectly done at the push of a button? Absolutely. And thats exactly what these manufactures are doing. They are letting the machine thats cutting fabric, also take on the task of Molle. It's a manufacturing short cut. Again, they are relying on the "good enough" principle.

    Will different fabrics Laser cut differently? Absolutely. Still. No matter what fabric you use; I am not convinced it is duty grade. All woven fabrics behave essentially the same way. The weave of the fabric MUST have something done to it to either stabilize or secure the weave so that fraying doesn't occur. When the fabric is actually being woven the edge of the fabric is actually woven differently than the rest. This edge is called the selvage. While laser cutting is a good way to stabilize the edge of a fabric, it doesn't actually secure it. The reason it kinda works on Nylon is because Nylon is a synthetic polymer based fabric that melts kinda like glue. This precision melting is never more than a millimeter thick. As soon as any stress or abrasion can break through the melted zone, you WILL get fabric running. Now even though a run has started it doesn't mean it will always continue. For example if you used something like 2 layers of 500D laminated together I'd be willing to bet that the underlying layer would support the run on top.

    No matter what though this is the wrong way to approach the problem when traditional methods of sewing hems and edge binding tape have never failed. I'd be willing to be that properly sewn molle loops would cause the surrounding weave to tear before the stitching at the loops lets go.


    Really sorry to be the bearer of bad news. I just know how much of a value "end of the world reliability" is to the average user on this forum. The facts are that laser cut molle is simply the fast fashion of tactical gear. It's new and it looks cool, and it won't last. Traditional Molle on the other hand is more proven than the DD RIS2. It is absolutely bomb proof when sewn properly.
    Tactical Nylon Micro Brewery

  5. #45
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    Made in America is great.

    But I believe the outstanding Agilite K19 Plate Carrier I just picked up is made in Israel. It is the current issued PC to the IDF, and those folks know their stuff!

  6. #46
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    I found this thread just in time….

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snipe315 View Post
    Made in America is great.

    But I believe the outstanding Agilite K19 Plate Carrier I just picked up is made in Israel. It is the current issued PC to the IDF, and those folks know their stuff!
    Made anywhere but shithole nations like China is fine. Israel is an ally.

  8. #48
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    Yes those are known GTG.

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