Question on Law Enforcement raids....

[Straight Shooter]

WHY dont L.E. raids have Paramedics on scene, close by, when conducting raids, so when a cop get shot, or perp, they dont have to "call Paramdics" like is being reported for the FBI this morning?
Or, do they have them close by? Anyone know how long the response time was to the shot agents this morning?
IF this isnt standard protocol..why not?

[joedirt199]

Our planned ops have an ambulance staged close by and an emt trains with and is part of our team. The new protocol for "raids" is breach and hold after all the marshalls were getting shot on entries. One of the reasons I don't want to get back on our team. More standing around while the robot does all the work. Then hours of negotiations trying to convince the person out.

[gunnerblue]

Poor planning

[Vandal]

At least in my area for planned SWAT operations a paramedic unit and second medic/aid car is staged nearby, typically at the command post. SWAT medics also play a role in on-scene medical stabilization should a cop or suspect take rounds.

For the raid we're talking about, those weren't FBI SWAT types. They were special agents, likely wearing soft armor. It sounds like the dirtbag child pron loving suspect was watching them approach on a Ring type camera and opened fire with a rifle as they got to the door. As we all know rifle rounds zip throughs of armor like me through a plate of tacos. Most "raids" like this actually go pretty smooth. There is a difference in tactics and assets brought between a knock-knock warrant service like this and a SWAT deployment.

@joedirt199, breach and hold is BS...

[Jermedic]

Im my 21 years in EMS in CA and AZ every time a local swat team has conducted a raid there has been a fire engine and ambulance staged a block or two away if needed. Currently the local PD and Sheriff's swat teams call our flight base to put us on standby as well if needed since our area is a relatively long flight to a trauma center.

[HardToHandle]

“Raid” or warrant service?
We probably need to be realistic about risk assessment and Monday Morning Quarterbacking. Clearly there was a disconnect in Miami between the assessed risk and the actual risk, but the WHY is unknown.

0600 knock time appeared to be designed to reduce risk by catching the target unawares. That is troublesome time period in my area, as that is near the normal Fire Department shift change in addition to the regularly-scheduled 0615 stroke/heart attack time (lots of people go to bed with incipient heart attacks or strokes and call in the AM).

Plus, what good does a paramedic rig do when there is active shots being fired? Bad guys willing to shoot up agents in raid jackets probably will light up a big box ambulance too.

While not raid per se, I was involved in an OIS where the paramedics arrived just before the police officers and staged a distance away. The incident devolved into a shootout on the front lawn, with paramedics in the line of fire down the street. Having the paramedics close made zero difference in the patient outcomes, one dead and four injured, but could have resulted in two dead responders when the situation went mobile. That is an anecdote of one, but stacking assets is not a panacea. YMMV.

[dwhitehorne]

Poor planning

^^This^^

In a PD when officers get to be Detactives/Investigators they usually have years of street experience before going to investiations. The general FBI Agent I've dealt with knocking on the door usually is someone fairly junior in the organization. When a warrant service goes bad prior planning helps mitigate the confusion. An ambush is definitely one of the worst situations to be in. David

[ggammell]

Poor planning

Pretty much this. And the age old “we’ve always done it this way.”

[andre3k]

In 20 years I've never had an ambulance staged for a warrant. Why? Sometimes we'll have three or four squads running felony ARREST warrants in the same general area. If we had one staged for each warrant we would have every ambulance in the area tied up waiting on us, on the off chance that something might happen.

[C-grunt]

Our swat teams have paramedics and I believe a doctor or two. If our swat guys are doing a warrant it's for a violent person. So fire is staged nearby. We also have fire/PD liason units in my department. Thats' thir entire job. But being a bigger dept in a big city, we have more resources that smaller departments. But no matter if you got fire/EMS staged or not, they are not rolling into a hot scene. Some crews who work in the bad parts of town do sometimes, but it's not the norm.

On the other hand, Ive been on a few search warrants with the FBI. Never worked with one of their full time swat teams (who I hear are legit) but have been around their field agents who went through swat training types. Every warrant I went on was a complete shit show. Planning was bad, tactics were bad, it was just all bad.

Like was said above, in a normal PD your investigators have years of experience on the street dealing with bad guys face to face. The FBI agents are good at investigating but their interview skills, safety, and tactics when they are actually out on the streets are lacking. It's actually kinda funny watching some ivy league college graduate try to interrogate a gang banger whose robbery crew decided to try doing banks.

Now, that doesnt mean every FBI field agent is a bumbling dork and every PD detective is a badass. We got plenty of detectives who went to the desk to get off the streets because they were bad cops or were scared and wanted to get away from patrol work.