NiB barrel extensions

[DG23]

No such thing as over lube.

The only junk here is your advice.

You did one of your 'Physical' videos of the exact same type Toolcraft NiB carrier I posted a picture of and at the end (about the 18:39 point) you said yourself "Overall, Pretty good Physical".



No mention anywhere in that entire video of any sort of problems with NiB or any sort problems you found with that particular carrier related to it's coating. Nothing, Nada, Zero problems that you found or reported related to the finish at all from that Toolcraft carrier.

You did spend a good few minutes measuring the firing pin protrusion and crying about how you did not like it and how it was a bit on the short side of the spec but ultimately said the carrier 'passed'.


For far less time than you spent crying about the FP protrusion in that video you could have easily shown people how to 'correct' it .006 in the other direction to place it right at the .028 that you were wanting to see.





.006 off of that shoulder is a 30 second adjustment on a 2 dollar part for anyone with a piece of fine sandpaper and a means to power spin the firing pin. 5 minutes tops if a guy wants to get there slowly / sneak up on his desired protrusion and do it spinning the pin by hand.


If something as simple as .006" of firing pin protrusion is causing you as much grief as what it seemed to be in that video and you are clueless as to how to resolve it...

And then the lube thing that you have clear issues with...



Very thankful I did not go to your 'school'.

[okie]

You did one of your 'Physical' videos of the exact same type Toolcraft NiB carrier I posted a picture of and at the end (about the 18:39 point) you said yourself "Overall, Pretty good Physical".



No mention anywhere in that entire video of any sort of problems with NiB or any sort problems you found with that particular carrier related to it's coating. Nothing, Nada, Zero problems that you found or reported related to the finish at all from that Toolcraft carrier.

You did spend a good few minutes measuring the firing pin protrusion and crying about how you did not like it and how it was a bit on the short side of the spec but ultimately said the carrier 'passed'.


For far less time than you spent crying about the FP protrusion in that video you could have easily shown people how to 'correct' it .006 in the other direction to place it right at the .028 that you were wanting to see.





.006 off of that shoulder is a 30 second adjustment on a 2 dollar part for anyone with a piece of fine sandpaper and a means to power spin the firing pin. 5 minutes tops if a guy wants to get there slowly / sneak up on his desired protrusion and do it spinning the pin by hand.


If something as simple as .006" of firing pin protrusion is causing you as much grief as what it seemed to be in that video and you are clueless as to how to resolve it...

And then the lube thing that you have clear issues with...



Very thankful I did not go to your 'school'.

Yikes man cool off. There are better things to get angry about.

[SOTAR]

One video does not show everything I have worked on. I say it in just about every other video.

There's about 11k AR's that are not on video. I have a long write-up about problems with NiB on BCG's.

Using sandpaper on the bolt tail or firing pin does not allow for a square shoulder to be created. A non squared shoulder can allow protrusion to change rapidly.

I have seen other posts you have made here. You are at outside your lane.

No worries about my classes. I'm backlogged over 600 students. My classes sell out in minutes.

[Ned Christiansen]

Well this thread is about (I had to go back and check) NiBX and not FP protrusion but I will comment on that.

I have never, ever sweated it or checked it and I don't own a FP protrusion gage. I will say that since the first time I ever looked at an AR15 firing pin sticking out of a bolt I said "that'll never fire". Protrusion seems so minimal.... and yet I have not personally seen one misfire due to inadequate protrusion, so.... to this day I don't own the gage. But. Item 1: Touring a plant that was making BCG's for real-deal .gov contract guns, they made a big deal about gaging FP's from the flange to the tip. Actually they were not gaging them, they were measuring them (there's a dif) and keeping an SPC plot on them (Statistical Process Control). As I recall it, but not sure-- it was a while ago-- they were doing 100% inspection and I recall that being part of the mil-spec. Point being, they took it seriously where I never have. Item 2: SOTAR takes it seriously and gages it. I gotta tell ya, that makes me think maybe I should have been taking it seriously all these years. Item 3: At the plant they were also gaging or measuring, well, lots of things but to include the bolt dimension from the end of the tail to the bolt face. If this was long it would also lead to scant FP protrusion (it is held to +/- .002). Sanding the flange of the FP will all respect would not be a good or easy or fast way of correcting an issue. In a pinch, maybe.

So back to NiB / NiB-X. Not asking anyone to re-hash what's wrong with it, I'll research that here when I get the chance, but I didn't know there was something wrong with it. I would have said everything to gain and nothing to lose, but-- not a ton to gain, given that I have and use carriers with, I think, every finish ever offered (almost) and a few with no finish-- bare steel. All work the same. I've sure handled a lot more of than I've used and the NiB'd ones feel darned slippery-- that can't hurt. I will say I have not seen rust on anything NiB'd. I have seen one NiB'd bolt break-- yesterday. So of the many broken bolts I've seen, one was NiB'd. When it happened I didn't think it was because it was plated, but-- I really don't know. It's not a high temp process, in fact years ago I did it at home and it was easy-- at 190 degrees.

[ViperTwoSix]

Back on track... I think we have two different topics going- BCGs and the original question regarding barrel extensions.

Full disclosure, I have no experience with NiB nor do I own anything NiB. There have been lots of unfavorable opinions and experiences with NiB BCGs. Now that being said, were these experiences with any specific brand? I ask about brand because both FailZero and WMD claim their versions of NiB will not crack, flake, wear off, or any of the bad things most mentioned when someone has a negative experience. Or, have the same experiences with poor wear, flaking, cracking, etc. also been experienced with these brands despite their claims that their proprietary coatings do not flake or spall?

Also of note, I did read this testing that does show some improved functionality from FailZero’s version of NiB. Does this mean real world experiences regarding poor quality of NiB coating is invalid, of course not. I did find it interesting though.

https://www.uctcoatings.com/wp-conte..._sand-pics.pdf

Now, to the OP’s original question regarding barrel extensions. Have the same negative experiences folks have had with NiB BCGs also been experienced with barrel extensions? Does anyone know of a Ballistic Advantage NiB barrel extensions flaking or cracking for example? Or a LWRC NiCorr barrel flaking or cracking or having a catastrophic fail due to the coating? Has anyone used and had poor wear characteristics from a FailZero or WMD-X barrel extension?

Maybe there is no improvement over phosphate for a barrel extension despite whatever the manufacturer claims. I don’t have enough experience with NiB to know. However, my inquiring mind hasn’t found much specific to barrel extensions having issues with NiB using the google so I can’t help but wonder if anyone here has experiences, positive or negative, specific to barrel extensions? Even the many negative reviews I have read about BA barrels I don’t recall any of them having anything to do with their NiB barrel extension.

[1168]

Ned,
I would be very interested to hear what you learn. I’ve been trying to understand what sucks so bad about NiB for some time, but I lack metallurgical expertise. As in, I know just enough to know that I know jack shit, and the more I learn, the more my ignorance is shown. I avoid it most of the time just because other people here that sound knowledgeable bash it.

I will say, I have a semi-retired rifle that has had a pile of rounds fed through it by a Fail-Zero bolt purchased around 2009. Many thou.

I’ve shot approximately a metric shit-pile of ammo through NiB barrel extensions on BA and BRT barrels. Still no issues. In fact, I’ve never broken a barrel extension of any type. The BRT barrel has been retired, so we’re not talking two cases of ammo here.

If y’all look through the Sionics two-stage trigger thread, you’ll see that I’ve got 8,500 rounds on one now. It hasn’t exploded yet. I’ll put it under a surface microscope at 10k for giggles.

It does seem to drastically improve corrosion resistance. I don’t really know if any of its other claims are legit, but it feels slick. Wipes down nicely.

mNot asking anyone to re-hash what's wrong with it, I'll research that here when I get the chance, but I didn't know there was something wrong with it.

[SOTAR]

The issues I have seen with NiB Barrel Extensions are not what I would consider catastrophic, but I avoid them due to what I have seen.

The more irritating thing I have seen is hard cycling when people don't use lubricant. Something appears to happen when NiB is fouled and sits without lubrication. It can cause it to be very difficult to initially charge the firearm. I don't know why it happens, just that it does.

Another issue I have repeatedly observed is the coating causing short headspace. Most people think AR's don't need to have HS checked so they think this is a non issue.

Another issue but more rare is rapidly opening headspace if the coating chips/delaminates.

Sometimes the lug raceways are undersized due to the coating and this can allow unwanted bolt lug contact/friction when going in and out of battery.

I can post the NiB BCG problem list in another thread.

[SOTAR]

Well this thread is about (I had to go back and check) NiBX and not FP protrusion but I will comment on that.

I have never, ever sweated it or checked it and I don't own a FP protrusion gage. I will say that since the first time I ever looked at an AR15 firing pin sticking out of a bolt I said "that'll never fire". Protrusion seems so minimal.... and yet I have not personally seen one misfire due to inadequate protrusion, so.... to this day I don't own the gage. But. Item 1: Touring a plant that was making BCG's for real-deal .gov contract guns, they made a big deal about gaging FP's from the flange to the tip. Actually they were not gaging them, they were measuring them (there's a dif) and keeping an SPC plot on them (Statistical Process Control). As I recall it, but not sure-- it was a while ago-- they were doing 100% inspection and I recall that being part of the mil-spec. Point being, they took it seriously where I never have. Item 2: SOTAR takes it seriously and gages it. I gotta tell ya, that makes me think maybe I should have been taking it seriously all these years. Item 3: At the plant they were also gaging or measuring, well, lots of things but to include the bolt dimension from the end of the tail to the bolt face. If this was long it would also lead to scant FP protrusion (it is held to +/- .002). Sanding the flange of the FP will all respect would not be a good or easy or fast way of correcting an issue. In a pinch, maybe.

So back to NiB / NiB-X. Not asking anyone to re-hash what's wrong with it, I'll research that here when I get the chance, but I didn't know there was something wrong with it. I would have said everything to gain and nothing to lose, but-- not a ton to gain, given that I have and use carriers with, I think, every finish ever offered (almost) and a few with no finish-- bare steel. All work the same. I've sure handled a lot more of than I've used and the NiB'd ones feel darned slippery-- that can't hurt. I will say I have not seen rust on anything NiB'd. I have seen one NiB'd bolt break-- yesterday. So of the many broken bolts I've seen, one was NiB'd. When it happened I didn't think it was because it was plated, but-- I really don't know. It's not a high temp process, in fact years ago I did it at home and it was easy-- at 190 degrees.

Ned,

I wouldn't dare to tell you what you should do. I'll just share my experience.

If you start checking protrusion you might be surprised how often bolts/firing pins fall outside the proper range. If I had to throw out a #, at least 20% fail a protrusion check.

The amount of protrusion isn't a big deal to most people until they start having what I call "ghosts in the machine". That can be random reliability issues, light strikes, ammo sensitivity, and in some cases accuracy/consistently problems.

When headspace is on the more sloppy side, short protrusion rears it head even more.

When I work on a gun purposed for precision work I like to see protrusion on the high side. I have seen more consistency when there is more protrusion. My theory is it results in a more consistent powder burn.

In most cases you can just grab another firing pin and pass a bolt/f.p. combination. I don't worry about individual F.P. or Bolt length. The recipe is what is important to me. What do the two parts measure when they do their intended task, the recipe.

When manufacturers attend my courses they often bring parts they can't figure out why they won't work. This isalways a great learning experience for me and everyone attending. When we see "off" issues with a bolt it's almost always one of these things 1) short headspace, 2) F.P. Protrusion, 3) bent/burred firing pin or firing pin channel, 4) undersized bolt tail, 5) bad extractor dimensions or extractor travel, 6) undersized/oversized bolt face, 7) ejector tunnel drilled too deep, and 8) a beveled or oversized firing pin hole.

Just sharing my experience, not telling you what to do my friend.

[DG23]

Using sandpaper on the bolt tail or firing pin does not allow for a square shoulder to be created. A non squared shoulder can allow protrusion to change rapidly.

You can't see the part behind the paper that keeps things square?

Good lord man...

I tried to make it so easy anyone could understand but...


( I never said or implied dicking with any bolt tail - )

[the AR-15 Junkie]

One video does not show everything I have worked on. I say it in just about every other video.

There's about 11k AR's that are not on video.

No worries about my classes. I'm backlogged over 600 students. My classes sell out in minutes.

Your self grandiose is really getting old man, give it a rest.