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Thread: PVS-14s, spend my (limited) budget

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by okie View Post
    You can get Elbit XLSH for around 2500. Most of the ones I've seen meet OMNI VIII standards, and many far exceed them. Sometimes you can find them with a little blem in zone 3 with FOMs in the 2k plus range.
    The XLS line is more hit and miss. The minimums are very low and the spot spec can be horrific. Most we see are coming in way above the minimums but there is always something off on the XLS tubes that makes them not be the better SLH tubes. The XLS line even allows blems in Zone 1 (center of tube). As long as the customer UNDERSTANDS what he is buying, they are a good value, but if your a picky patty or don't understand all the numbers, the blems, etc. than I wouldn't suggest it. We sell the XLS also but we have a big disclaimer in the XLS listings so people clearly understand they are buying a lesser tube or as another nv vendor called the XLS "the bottom of the barrel."

    The Echo spec tubes are much more predictable and much, much cleaner tubes. We are seeing on average 68 LP and 30 and over SN on Echos for the last six months.
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  2. #12
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    A pic of a green 1900 fom and an (older) WP Echo spec PVS14

    hpexcavator.jpg

    echorangeequipment.jpg

    Angle was slightly different but you get the idea. Same night, pics taken minutes apart. At our range in the middle of the GA swamps- no ambient lighting around, nearest street light is about a mile away.
    Last edited by Lowdown3; 02-08-21 at 12:45.
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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grendelshooter View Post
    In your opinion is there a truly noticeable difference in image quality between the echo WP set and the green fom 1900 I was looking at?
    I have zero experience with the Echo line (full disclosure), but the differences between white and green aren't really about image quality. It's about how the eye and brain process the information. The eye is able to see contrast more easily with the white. If you look at two images of white and green side by side, the difference really jumps out at you. If you sit there and study the green image you'll notice that the image quality is the same, but in an overall sense it's difficult to make out individual objects unless you focus in on those areas and really study the borders between the light and the dark. So with the white you're not only able to pick up on distinct objects faster, you get a better sense of depth perception.

    Also keep in mind that FOM ratings aren't linear in terms of how you're going to perceive the quality. Like double the FOM doesn't equal double the resolution in terms of how you see it. If you looked at a tube with a FOM of 1800 and one with 2000, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. If you jack it up to like 2500, then you can tell the difference under specific circumstances. Mainly it has to do with being able to detect objects at a lower light threshold. But like I said, it's not linear. You have to jack the FOM way up to get a tangible advantage.

    Whereas the advantage you get from white phosphor is going to be there no matter what, even if the FOM is a few hundred less. And FOM isn't even the whole story. EBI is also really important. And the higher the FOM, the rarer it is to see a really low EBI. So you could get a tube with an 1800 FOM that had a .1 EBI and compare it to one with a 2500 FOM and an EBI of 1, and maybe the 1800 tube would actually give you more object detection. Those numbers are arbitrary, mind you, but I just want to illustrate that it's possible, and even probable, to have super high FOM with a worst case EBI, which is a common reason you might see a high FOM tube in a lower tier line. Just as it's common to see mid range FOM with really stellar EBI.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lowdown3 View Post
    A pic of a green 1900 fom and an (older) WP Echo spec PVS14

    hpexcavator.jpg

    echorangeequipment.jpg

    Angle was slightly different but you get the idea. Same night, pics taken minutes apart. At our range in the middle of the GA swamps- no ambient lighting around, nearest street light is about a mile away.
    Any idea what the specs are on the white one? Gotta say I would go for the green between those two.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by okie View Post
    Any idea what the specs are on the white one? Gotta say I would go for the green between those two.
    Those pics are a couple years old and that Echo was 28 SN and 64 LP IIRC. The green unit was 29 SN and 64 LP.
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  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lowdown3 View Post
    Those pics are a couple years old and that Echo was 28 SN and 64 LP IIRC. The green unit was 29 SN and 64 LP.
    Any idea what the EBI were?

  7. #17
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    Okie made some good points on the white vs. green. Couple things I always tell customers-

    If you had two absolutely identical in specifications tubes (something that doens't happen in real life) and one was green and one was white, your brain would PERCEIVE the white as being brighter even though it may not necessarily be.

    The down side to white is the tiny black blemishes that are inherent in all NV tubes are more easy to see against a white background. Similar to taking a blank white sheet of typing paper and putting a little pencil dot on it. Your brain tends to look at the tiny dot versus the other 99.99% of the page which is absolutely clean.

    Outside of that, as a general rule green phosphor units typically ship quicker in the Elbit tubes. The exception to that is the Photonis Echo spec tubes which are shipping in 4 weeks or less.
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  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by okie View Post
    Any idea what the specs are on the white one? Gotta say I would go for the green between those two.
    Agreed.

    Was that the intent Lowdown3? Is the White supposed to be better?

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by okie View Post
    Any idea what the EBI were?
    Both were under or around 1.
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  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by OdinIII View Post
    Agreed.

    Was that the intent Lowdown3? Is the White supposed to be better?
    It was comparison photos we did years ago. Once again the Echo (white) is an older Echo, numbers are much higher on Echos now.

    An earlier posted asking how the green 1900 fom model compared to the Echo. Hence why I posted the pics if that's what your asking??
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