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Thread: Now that CZ owns Colt, what should they do first?

  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diz View Post
    Well, yes, and no. Not a big fan of unions, but not a big fan of fat-cat capitalists either. The problem is there is fault on both sides, so singling out one or the other doesn't really solve the issue. I have worked in manufacturing for over 20 years, in union and non-union shops. I've seen the good, bad, and ugly. The unions played a significant role in the demise of the auto industry, but so did the corporate players. There were no innocent parties there. Greed cuts across all layers of society.

    We're talking about a balance of power, between labor and management. Too much either way isn't a good thing. But since we're talking about people here, it becomes a struggle for domination, not equality. That's just our nature. You need a mechanism to balance the two interests, and though unions have the right idea, they frequently get abused. And the working man gets stuck between a rock and a hard place. Neither side has his best interest at heart. So all in all, I think each man should control his own destiny. If your welder can't get a square deal, then up-stakes and go somewhere else. Don't squat in one place and expect someone else to take care of you. Or if you can't find any work as a welder, then re-train yourself and get into field that is more competitive.

    Sure I made good wages in a union shop, but it never lasted. It's kind of a pay me a lot now, and lay me off, or pay me a decent wage that can be sustained-type of thing. Trust me, when things get tough, touch labor is the first thing to go. That's just the way it is. The guy with the money and ideas gets to decide what he wants to do. Unions frequently only aggravate the situation where the owners make poor decisions, run out of money, and the working man takes it in ass.

    I think the "Right to Work" states have the best idea. It seems to strike a good balance between labor and management. That's why I'd love to see Colt move to SC. The state works with local community colleges and new businesses to train folks in the exact skills needed to work in decent paying jobs. Neither side really holds sway over the other. The companies want good workers; the people want good jobs. The market seems to balance itself out.

    GA is also a right to work state.

    Also thanks for your input above. I agree about the balancing act, that’s what I was trying to get at.

    I will also say I fully believe certain actors in government are intentionally stressing the situation from many different directions to their own ends of trying to bring some new form of communism to America, and well, they’re traitors in my book.
    Last edited by OldArmy01; 10-22-21 at 10:56.

  2. #72
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    As I will always do, I’ll pile on the union topic.

    Since the FLSA and OSHA were enacted, unions serve no good for the public at large, instead increasing operating costs for companies by 20-30% conservatively, then passed to consumers.
    Unions are however a business model that sells a service to other companies’ either a) disgruntled or b) poor employees. Disgruntled employees are either disgruntled because of poor management (the norm) or an inflated sense of self worth. So they may at times provide a benefit to disgruntled and poor employees, though that “benefit” typically is very short term.

    That is the norm.

    I will carve out a cautious and incomplete caveat for unions that do the above but also train workers. Those workers tend to have an edge in skill but come along with an inflated sense of self worth that tends to make them into poor employees in every way except their quality of work. In time, regular employees catch up in skill and exceed in overall performance. However, some of these unions self-regulate and though costing everyone more money can help maintain high standards of work and even job performance.

    Obligatory bona fides: I was a union worker, and now I help companies avoid unions. Two days ago, I listened to hourly employees, paid substantially more than union workers in the same industry, describe how frustrating it is going onto a job site where they have to be treated like trash and wait forever to coordinate with union workers. And I didn’t bring this up, they did.


    Anyway.

    I don’t know Colt’s structure, so I can’t state more than opinion. But, I imagine that their most experienced workers are likely part of the union. You can’t just “dump” a union, and I’m pretty sure Connecticut is not a free state. If they relocate and their skilled workers don’t go with them, there is going to be an on ramp to catch back up to quality as new hires learn the jobs. Catch-22 for any company, and we all know that plenty of consumers will whine an moan about how bad Colt is due to the change.

  3. #73
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    That is a pretty good synopsis of union operations and the abuses they perpetuate in the name of "equality". But that being said business ethics have gone in the shitter over the past few decades as well. So you had companies being taken over and ran by investment types that were there strictly to squeeze every dime of profit from the cash cow, and then discard the carcass. BTDT.

    All things considered, I still think Colt needs to get the **** out of Connecticut, (I doubt many of those union types would be willing to move), and relocate in a right to work state. Whatever the fallout from that would be so worth it for guys like me that have hated their management for being gov't whores for so long, and turning their back on the citizens. I think their QC has already fallen off since they don't have the large volume gov't contracts anymore, and reality being they haven't done anything innovative in decades, so re-training a workforce shouldn't be that much of a stretch. Get with a willing state and get them trained up through the local community colleges. Somehow the phrase it can get any worse comes to mind.
    Working for Crossfire Australia, a military rucksack and load-bearing equipment company. Still doing limited design and development of nylon LBE.

  4. #74
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    I was in management when the plant I worked at was the focus of an organization effort by a union. First gig out of college and I worked for Tyson back then. The lies they told were pretty amazing. However all it took was for the employees to realize that the wage the union was promising, once they subtracted their dues, would actually be less than what they were making. What was frustrating was that, by law, none of us in management could point that out to anyone or it would have been considered a violation by the NLRB. But it got out.

    Management during the industrial revolution created the environment for unions to thrive. Flat out no doubt about it the working man, woman and child were getting abused. But, like many other things in life, the course correction went too far in the other direction. Creating the imbalance of power others have referred to here in this thread.

    Little story to underscore the point. Back at that same Tyson plant we had USDA staff on premise at all times. One of the inspectors had failed the civil service exam multiple times and eventually wrote a letter to her senator who pulled strings to get her a waiver. Also USDA is unionized. One day while I escorted this particular inspector while doing pre op inspections we are up on a catwalk roughly 4 feet off the ground. Wet environment. Cement floors. Etc. I was waking on the catwalk in front of this particular inspector (she actually was holding her clip board upside down. She had NO idea what she was doing.) She shoves me from behind, off the catwalk, and says to me "get the F outta my way white boy." I filed a grievance. Her boss, who I was friendly with, just laughed. He said I really wish I could fire her but she has over 40 complaints filed against her and no one will touch her. The union is protecting her. So yeah, I hate unions, lol.
    Last edited by Dutch110; 10-28-21 at 10:02.

  5. #75
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    Mail man just stopped by and we were talking about unions, and afterwards my wife and I talked about them as well. Her feeling is they were a very needed part of America as we developed. I don't disagree.

    I would like to bring up something for thought among us (and I appreciate the civility everyone has showed here, which really shows this is the best people posting in my little slice of the internet). Look at how many Federal and State agencies and organizations are wielding massive for injuries, workers rights and similar things which the Unions are supposedly covering. The basic premise for a Union is what? Safety and equality for the workers? The various GOV organizations are a much much scarier concept for employers to worry about than a Union. If I as a cop am injured on the job, and my city doesn't take care of me, the Unions step in and make it right along with a couple bucks for me. If the city doesn't make it right and I go to the state, the state not only makes it right, but also fines the city tens of thousands of dollars. Who would keep workers protected better?
    Stick


    Board policy mandates I state that I shoot for BCM. I have also done work for 200 or so manufacturers within the firearm community. I am prior service, a full time LEO, firearm instructor, armorer, TL, martial arts instructor, and all around good guy.

    I also shoot and write for various publications. Let me know if you know cool secrets or have toys worthy of an article...


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  6. #76
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    Even though I have an overall general dislike for organized labor, I do feel that those who work in the public sector, where the terms of their employment can change based on the whims of public opinion or, even worse, politicians, do have a strong case for needing a collective bargaining agreement. My Dad was a teacher for over 30 years. And while he didn't align at all politically with the teachers unions, every time their contract came up for negotiation they would have been screwed without them. That plant I mentioned above was actually in the school district where my Dad taught. During one of those contract negotiation years I got to hear a lot of chatter on the topic from the folks who worked at the plant. None of them knew my Dad was a teacher. One of the more representative comments came from a guy who was a forklift driver out on the docks. He told me it was "ridiculous for a teacher to come in out of college and start at 25k a year. They should do it because they love it, not for the paycheck. If they need to get a second job to make ends meet that's their problem."

  7. #77
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    To flip that around Dutch, I might ask whether non-public sector workers face a similarly- or greater-challenging force in the market.
    And to the point that I think Stick was making, we’re looking at combining the purpose (fighting for monetary and other advantages for their customers) of unions with the power of the state to force us as taxpayers to comply with union demands.
    I’m speaking a little out of turn, as public sector unions are not my area. But I think my general point is fair.
    “God doesn’t need your good works, but your neighbor does.” - Luther

    Quote Originally Posted by 1168
    7.5” is the Ed Hardy of barrel lengths.

  8. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by JediGuy View Post
    To flip that around Dutch, I might ask whether non-public sector workers face a similarly- or greater-challenging force in the market.
    And to the point that I think Stick was making, we’re looking at combining the purpose (fighting for monetary and other advantages for their customers) of unions with the power of the state to force us as taxpayers to comply with union demands.
    I’m speaking a little out of turn, as public sector unions are not my area. But I think my general point is fair.
    I certainly think we are on the same page, or very very close to it. You can write my newsletters for me!
    Stick


    Board policy mandates I state that I shoot for BCM. I have also done work for 200 or so manufacturers within the firearm community. I am prior service, a full time LEO, firearm instructor, armorer, TL, martial arts instructor, and all around good guy.

    I also shoot and write for various publications. Let me know if you know cool secrets or have toys worthy of an article...


    Flickr Tumblr Facebook Instagram RECOILMAGAZINE OFF GRID RECOIL WEB

  9. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stickman View Post
    I certainly think we are on the same page, or very very close to it. You can write my newsletters for me!
    “What’s the $$?” - Capitalist Me
    “God doesn’t need your good works, but your neighbor does.” - Luther

    Quote Originally Posted by 1168
    7.5” is the Ed Hardy of barrel lengths.

  10. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by JediGuy View Post
    To flip that around Dutch, I might ask whether non-public sector workers face a similarly- or greater-challenging force in the market.
    And to the point that I think Stick was making, we’re looking at combining the purpose (fighting for monetary and other advantages for their customers) of unions with the power of the state to force us as taxpayers to comply with union demands.
    I’m speaking a little out of turn, as public sector unions are not my area. But I think my general point is fair.
    Here is where my management bias shines through. If you're workforce isn't happy, your customers will never be either. That means it behooves us in management to build teams that maybe not love, but don't hate coming to work every day. If you do that, you'll never be subjected to a unionization drive. If you don't, you deserve what you get. This needs to come from the top down. So if we as managers do our jobs right then no. I don't feel that those in the private sector should face those same challenges. And especially when dealing with skilled / professional labor.

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