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Thread: What class am I looking for?

  1. #1
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    What class am I looking for?

    My emergency medical experience goes all the way back to becoming an EMT/ firefighter at 18 in 1988.

    ...for reference, Taylor Swift wasnít born yet.

    Since then EMS has been an interest but not my profession.

    Iíve dabbled with combat lifesaver in the Army, taken the occasional first aid/ cpr refresher and some local training from the fire and EMS districts where Iíve worked as a cop... and taken a few classes on my own hook from relatively well known providers.

    Iím currently certified in First Aid, CPR/AED, Stop the Bleed, and TECC-LEO.

    Much is different than 1988. Three things in particular are nasopharyngeal airways, chest seals and wound packing.

    Iíve taken a few classes that allowed us to practice with TQs, and talked about the other 3, but none have actually done hands-on would lacking with a simulator, showed how to apply and burp chest seals or how to insert a nose hose.

    I know there are simulators and training dressings/ devices for all these.

    What level class do I need to take, or perhaps do I need to retake from another provider, to get hands on experience with these, especially the nasopharyngeal airway?
    "I am a Soldier. I fight where I'm told and I win where I fight." GEN George S. Patton, Jr.

  2. #2
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    A course from a Dark Angel Medical or Templar Medical Training would probably suit your needs well.
    AQ planned for years and sent their A team to carry out the attacks, and on Flight 93 they were thwarted by a pick-up team made up of United Frequent Fliers. Many people look at 9/11 and wonder how we can stop an enemy like that. I look at FL93 and wonder, "How can we lose?". -- FromMyColdDeadHand

  3. #3
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    Look through this subforum and the training after-actions to ID some vendors. There are a lot of options in your region, easily within a days drive. What you're looking for is painfully simple as component skills and can be easily instructed by a trained peer if one is available to you. The value of a class is the group learning and combined topics, do that as well if it's an option.

    When FLETC exports resume normal operations, try to get to the BTMITP. High quality, free, I've been several times. Here's an AAR from 2015:
    https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?168434

    Also consider taking a wilderness medicine course, which offers some variations and perspectives applicable to regular folks.
    https://www.nols.edu/en/wilderness-medicine/courses/
    https://www.wildmed.com/wilderness-medical-courses/
    2012 National Zumba Endurance Champion
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  4. #4
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    Unless you are calling in 9-lines or otherwise in the mil, stay away from TCCC. Fun class, sure, but WAY more than what people need. TECC is a civilian equivalent (didn't yours go over these skills?), but a lot of 'trainers' teach a modified version of a trauma/trauma skills class. Our state has a popular gun-specific forum on which a lot of trainers list a schedule of their classes. I do not know if Colorado has similar, but you can try.

    You can also take an EMT refresher if yours isn't too out of date; or a new EMT class if it is.

    Regarding manikins and training devices, yes, there are such on the market, but a lot of us in the teaching biz DIY it, and youtube has a lot of resources. Also on Facebook (if you are on), search "Tactical Medicine Community," a site popular with TEMS and LEOs.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckman View Post
    Unless you are calling in 9-lines or otherwise in the mil, stay away from TCCC.
    Well, my long term goal is planning for critical incidents on one of my campuses.

    I'd like to have the majority of staff trained in BLS, and the health aids trained in "Stop the Bleed", and plans such as casualty collection points, triage, and EMS ingress/egress routes. I have to plan for things to run without me, because at best I'll be busy. No EMS is coming into a hot or even warm zone so the school will have to make do with personnel on hand until things are secured.

    Doing anything in a school district requires recognized standards and certifications. "Watch this YouTube video" won't cut it.
    "I am a Soldier. I fight where I'm told and I win where I fight." GEN George S. Patton, Jr.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by tanksoldier View Post
    Well, my long term goal is planning for critical incidents on one of my campuses.

    I'd like to have the majority of staff trained in BLS, and the health aids trained in "Stop the Bleed", and plans such as casualty collection points, triage, and EMS ingress/egress routes. I have to plan for things to run without me, because at best I'll be busy. No EMS is coming into a hot or even warm zone so the school will have to make do with personnel on hand until things are secured.

    Doing anything in a school district requires recognized standards and certifications. "Watch this YouTube video" won't cut it.
    If that is your goal, reach out to your jurisdictional emergency management agency for some guidance. While the medical aspect is just one feature of EM, they would know what educational resources are available. There are some crossover courses at the National Fire Academy and CDP in Anniston, Alabama. All of those are nationally recognized, and are either free or darn near.

    While TCCC is a cool merit badge, it's so niche and narrow-focused as so be useless to most people (i.e., 9-lines, antibiotics, etc.). The most useful medical adjuncts and TTPs can be more easily learned through other venues. Even the military has started using different forms of TCCC for different units/MOS.

  7. #7
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    Food for thought guys. "TCCC" gets overused and over-applied to a lot of courses. We need to accept it as a concept rather than a specific course. It might be helpful if we use "tccc-TYPE" or "tccc-BASED" or something like that. Same for TECC. I've been to a bunch of TCCC courses, none but the mil products taught to mil providers taught a 9-line, and BLS courses didn't include ALS skills. Check out the NAEMT TCCC course as an example.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by ST911 View Post
    Food for thought guys. "TCCC" gets overused and over-applied to a lot of courses. We need to accept it as a concept rather than a specific course. It might be helpful if we use "tccc-TYPE" or "tccc-BASED" or something like that. Same for TECC. I've been to a bunch of TCCC courses, none but the mil products taught to mil providers taught a 9-line, and BLS courses didn't include ALS skills. Check out the NAEMT TCCC course as an example.
    Well stated. The first TCCC class I went to was with NSWG2, when it was still being phased in for special operations. Since then I've been through, I don't know, a lot of iterations. Foundationally it's the same in that minor updates are all that are needed, but it's not quite the panacea a lot of people think it is, and it is certainly not applicable for many people in most circumstances.

    I think you are correct in recognizing the value and being a proponent for "tccc-based". One of the problems that is out there is that unless one takes it through a NAEMT-approved site, it often will not get recognized by agencies or jurisdictions, and certainly loses the protection of "credentialing". And there are a lot of people teaching it and giving a suitable-for-framing certificate of completion, but lack s the backing of "The Association".

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by ST911 View Post
    Food for thought guys. "TCCC" gets overused and over-applied to a lot of courses. We need to accept it as a concept rather than a specific course. It might be helpful if we use "tccc-TYPE" or "tccc-BASED" or something like that. Same for TECC. I've been to a bunch of TCCC courses, none but the mil products taught to mil providers taught a 9-line, and BLS courses didn't include ALS skills. Check out the NAEMT TCCC course as an example.
    The TECC-LEO class I just attended was as much more about how to go about applying BLS and Stop the Bleed techniques in a hot or warm zone. Maybe instead of two or three guys working on somebody, you have one provide security. Maybe a casualty you wouldn't normally move... you do. Maybe somebody you would stop and help, you don't until the threat is neutralized, then you come back.

    ...and they were very clear to point out this doesn't just apply in a shooting. Dude gets clipped by a car and is lying in the road, you probably don't treat him in the middle of the road. Somebody passes out and you smell something funny, you evacuate to a safe area then treat... or maybe just evacuate yourself.`

    The specific class I was in could have been presented better, but the concepts are solid.

    ...but we've gotten a bit off track, mostly my own fault.

    I'm trying to figure out what class to get my heath aids into so they can learn about NPAs, TQs and the rest. A good, hands on class.
    Last edited by tanksoldier; 02-18-21 at 13:35.
    "I am a Soldier. I fight where I'm told and I win where I fight." GEN George S. Patton, Jr.

  10. #10
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    Look at your state's first responder program. I believe they do simple airway adjuncts and tourniquets now, it's about a third or half the time commitment as EMT.

    You will not find many basic, low-hour courses that teach airway adjuncts and are accredited and offer a certification/validation.

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