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Senior Member
WHY dont L.E. raids have Paramedics on scene, close by, when conducting raids, so when a cop get shot, or perp, they dont have to "call Paramdics" like is being reported for the FBI this morning?
Or, do they have them close by? Anyone know how long the response time was to the shot agents this morning?
IF this isnt standard protocol..why not?
The obedient always think of themselves as virtuous rather than the cowards they really are.
Member
Our planned ops have an ambulance staged close by and an emt trains with and is part of our team. The new protocol for "raids" is breach and hold after all the marshalls were getting shot on entries. One of the reasons I don't want to get back on our team. More standing around while the robot does all the work. Then hours of negotiations trying to convince the person out.
Senior Member
Poor planning
Senior Member
At least in my area for planned SWAT operations a paramedic unit and second medic/aid car is staged nearby, typically at the command post. SWAT medics also play a role in on-scene medical stabilization should a cop or suspect take rounds.
For the raid we're talking about, those weren't FBI SWAT types. They were special agents, likely wearing soft armor. It sounds like the dirtbag child pron loving suspect was watching them approach on a Ring type camera and opened fire with a rifle as they got to the door. As we all know rifle rounds zip throughs of armor like me through a plate of tacos. Most "raids" like this actually go pretty smooth. There is a difference in tactics and assets brought between a knock-knock warrant service like this and a SWAT deployment.
@joedirt199, breach and hold is BS...
Reads a lot, posts little.
Member
Im my 21 years in EMS in CA and AZ every time a local swat team has conducted a raid there has been a fire engine and ambulance staged a block or two away if needed. Currently the local PD and Sheriff's swat teams call our flight base to put us on standby as well if needed since our area is a relatively long flight to a trauma center.
Member
“Raid” or warrant service?
We probably need to be realistic about risk assessment and Monday Morning Quarterbacking. Clearly there was a disconnect in Miami between the assessed risk and the actual risk, but the WHY is unknown.
0600 knock time appeared to be designed to reduce risk by catching the target unawares. That is troublesome time period in my area, as that is near the normal Fire Department shift change in addition to the regularly-scheduled 0615 stroke/heart attack time (lots of people go to bed with incipient heart attacks or strokes and call in the AM).
Plus, what good does a paramedic rig do when there is active shots being fired? Bad guys willing to shoot up agents in raid jackets probably will light up a big box ambulance too.
While not raid per se, I was involved in an OIS where the paramedics arrived just before the police officers and staged a distance away. The incident devolved into a shootout on the front lawn, with paramedics in the line of fire down the street. Having the paramedics close made zero difference in the patient outcomes, one dead and four injured, but could have resulted in two dead responders when the situation went mobile. That is an anecdote of one, but stacking assets is not a panacea. YMMV.
Senior Member
When I started on the SWAT team in 2000 we had three paramedics on the team. They were full time paramedics that trained with us, had reserve certifications for law enforcement, and could do other duties as well. We've always kept that number. We are a county team and have a county EMS so the OT isn't an issue. There have been a few that were very good and we had one that spent 16 years on the team. We don't use the team without them.
"The peace we have within us is most often expressed in how we treat others"
Member
We have a SWAT medic on the team, that actually is in the "stack" to make entry. He is actually an MD, but also holds a Commission and is a Sworn Officer (usually a Reserve Officer). One I worked with at my previous PD was a Combat Medic/Trauma Surgeon. We also have EMT/Ambulance staging in the "outer perimeter". They will enter the inner perimeter only after there are no longer any threats, (Scene is code 4 as we put it).
Senior Member
H2H-Originally Posted by HardToHandle
WHO THE F is "Monday Morning Quarterbacking"? I asked a simple question thats been on my mind for years, and the FBI story promted me to ask. And I CLEARLY did NOT say have the medics & ambulance in the the perps driveway for shits sake, I said "nearby"...like down the block. a half mile or so, whatever, just not 10-15 minutes or more away.
I dont know if it was a raid, "warrant service" or they had ****in doughnuts...I just asked a question. And to cite your one instance, out of the thousands per year that a nearby unit DID make a difference means exactly SHIT to me.
Next time you answer MY questions- DONT BE SUCH AN ASSHOLE.
Last edited by Straight Shooter; 02-03-21 at 07:40.
The obedient always think of themselves as virtuous rather than the cowards they really are.
Senior Member
Different departments, different protocols.
I was a tactical medic for three departments in my EMS career; 1 very rural sheriff's department, 1 very busy medium-size city (270K) PD, and one small-city (50K) department. For the medium-size city tac team I had to be state-certified LEO, so I had to to to cop school (BLET at community college). I was in the stack and had a weapon, was considered team-member first, then medic when things went sideways. The other two departments, I could not/did not carry and was not in the stack, and staged at the vehicle.
Most places don't have the tacmed capability, but it is slowly becoming more popular. Most places will often call for an ambulance to stage a couple blocks away. Some places don't do squat and just hope they don't need help.
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