10th Mountain Shoot House (GoPro)

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

It’s the live ammo, to me, that’s the issue. Day 1, run 1 running ‘pew,pew’; that’s fine. Run the video, smack some helmets, run 2 like a champ. They were running ‘bang,bang’.

[Voodoochild]

[lowprone]

MEH !!!
The whole nation is committing suicide !

[SteyrAUG]

Glad he pointed out the guys on the catwalks who one would assume were in control of everything. I don't want to bad talk any members of the military but if the original video had been from civies it would absolutely be shredded by everyone.

The most shocking thing to me is that it was (apparently) 10th Mountain who should be so experienced that nothing like this even comes close to happening and not even one guy gets flagged let alone 90% of everyone involved in the exercise.

Glad the video came to light so it can get fixed, I'd hate to think this sort of thing would continue. Also a really good opportunity to make sure everyone knows "this base level of room movement." That video was also a pretty nice and objective breakdown without a lot of crap talking.

[C-grunt]

It's been 15 years since I did any military MOUT stuff. Ive been doing LE urban training since then which is a bit different but has many of the same ideas.

1. Fragging rooms and spraying them down wasn't a thing back in the early GWOT era and the old guys then (Desert Storm, Mogadishu, Panama, etc... vets) didnt talk about it either. Fragging rooms you suspect guys are in isnt a bad idea. Running inside directly after or staying at the breach can be. Frag goes through walls and bounces off walls it doesnt. I learned this lesson well in 2003 when we tried to breach a compound gate with a M203. We were all behind cover in the courtyard but the concrete walls just became a bouncehouse for the fragments. The one 203 round fragged literally everyone in my fireteam. Luckily they were minor wounds with only one requiring stitches from the medic. The VAST VAST majority of MOUT warfare you dont know which exact buildings the enemy are actually in or how many. So this requires clearing multiple buildings and even whole city blocks. You'll run out of ammo and frags really quick and will probably have blown up and shot up empty rooms. Not to mention now you are inducing unneeded reloads in the middle of a structure clearing. Great time for the enemy to pop out a doorway and start sling rounds at you.

2. MOUT training has been a thing since WW2. Lots of urban warfare in Europe. Lots of urban warfare in Vietnam. Lots of urban warfare in Afghanistan. And Id bet money the majority of fighting in Iraq was urban as well.

[WillBrink]

I'm still interested in how/why that was put out for public viewing. Do we know how/why that is out in the first place? Obviously it was not put out to demonstrate what HSLD CQB they are. Even we plebs without formal training in that arena like me are "WTF?" when viewing it. Obviously, no one from the training cadre said "lets put that online as it's a good demo of capabilities" or such. Unless I missed it, I'm curious as how that appeared online for public viewing as much as I'm dismayed by what was on it. Someone with a grudge or other, like someone who wanted to bring the safety issues to light because they were not being addressed?

Or just as simple as the guy with the GoPro deciding it would be cool to put online without asking ?

[rushca01]

I'm still interested in how/why that was put out for public viewing. Do we know how/why that is out in the first place? Obviously it was not put out to demonstrate what HSLD CQB they are. Even we plebs without formal training in that arena like me are "WTF?" when viewing it. Obviously, no one from the training cadre said "lets put that online as it's a good demo of capabilities" or such. Unless I missed it, I'm curious as how that appeared online for public viewing as much as I'm dismayed by what was on it. Someone with a grudge or other, like someone who wanted to bring the safety issues to light because they were not being addressed?

Or just as simple as the guy with the GoPro deciding it would be cool to put online without asking ?

Actually, I think that IS exactly what happened...or so I have read on various other forums.

[WillBrink]

Actually, I think that IS exactly what happened...or so I have read on various other forums.

Which scenario?

[Averageman]

It's been 15 years since I did any military MOUT stuff. Ive been doing LE urban training since then which is a bit different but has many of the same ideas.

1. Fragging rooms and spraying them down wasn't a thing back in the early GWOT era and the old guys then (Desert Storm, Mogadishu, Panama, etc... vets) didnt talk about it either. Fragging rooms you suspect guys are in isnt a bad idea. Running inside directly after or staying at the breach can be. Frag goes through walls and bounces off walls it doesnt. I learned this lesson well in 2003 when we tried to breach a compound gate with a M203. We were all behind cover in the courtyard but the concrete walls just became a bouncehouse for the fragments. The one 203 round fragged literally everyone in my fireteam. Luckily they were minor wounds with only one requiring stitches from the medic. The VAST VAST majority of MOUT warfare you dont know which exact buildings the enemy are actually in or how many. So this requires clearing multiple buildings and even whole city blocks. You'll run out of ammo and frags really quick and will probably have blown up and shot up empty rooms. Not to mention now you are inducing unneeded reloads in the middle of a structure clearing. Great time for the enemy to pop out a doorway and start sling rounds at you.
2. MOUT training has been a thing since WW2. Lots of urban warfare in Europe. Lots of urban warfare in Vietnam. Lots of urban warfare in Afghanistan. And Id bet money the majority of fighting in Iraq was urban as well.

I worked hand in glove with Mech Infantry in Desert Storm and we ended the whole thing with some MOUT.
As a Tanker, on the approach was recon by fire and maintain a speed at which the Infantry can still use us for cover.
Corners were where our team work excelled. The corner guy takes a peek and signals, you go to tactical idle and jump in to the street guns toward objective. The corner guy is key here, you either go in guns blazing or slip across quietly.
That hand set on the back of the Abrams is a blessing in these cases, but the grunts never put it back in the box, so another spaghetti cord is necessary.
The key here is keeping speed and observation/security so travelling in a group is important.
No matter what maintain the discipline and stay together.

The most shocking thing to me is that it was (apparently) 10th Mountain who should be so experienced that nothing like this even comes close to happening and not even one guy gets flagged let alone 90% of everyone involved in the exercise.

It is scary how quick that experience fades away because people pcs, get promoted or get out.
We learned that when you are shooting at a adobe hut like cinder black mansion, the best place for you to receive a HEAT round was right on the door step, otherwise it would fly through the building and explode outside

[rushca01]

Which scenario?

It was posted to show how HSLD they were..