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Thread: Vetting a gun prior to Form 1?

  1. #1
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    Vetting a gun prior to Form 1?

    When you buy something for the express purpose of SBRing it, how much time should you spend vetting it in its factory configuration before making it an NFA item?
    I’m going to be picking up a CZ Scorpion at my FFL when he gets back from vacation (in a couple days I think). My intention right from the get go has been to SBR this thing. I have absolutely zero interest in it as a “pistol”.
    Now I’m going to fire it to at least function test the gun at the range, but I’m not really interested in blowing hundreds of rounds through it as pistol first before finally moving on to the SBR process, particularly with the current state of 9mm.
    I don’t even really want to spend the money on some kind of brace setup in the interim as most of the available braces are in the same price range as a tax stamp.
    On the other hand, going straight to NFA seems like it could be a real pain in the ass if after all is said and done, you end up with a lemon.
    My two existing forays into the SBR world (one of which is still “pending”....) have just been AR lowers that had been used extensively prior to doing the Form 1s on them.
    With the scorpion, it’s going to a new in box gun when I get it.

    How did those of you who have gone this route before proceed? Or how would you proceed?

    Spend weeks or months (as ammo availability allows) gradually vetting the gun in a configuration you don’t enjoy in order to make sure it’s “worth” SBRing?

    Or just leap into the NFA process with both feet?

  2. #2
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    I have operated several in pistol configuration until I was sure the lower was operating as it should. Usually a box or two of ammo works for me. Once you convert 1 to SBR, you’ll have a pistol brace to move around during testing on the others without having to purchase anymore.

    I currently have an AR-9 and AR-45 I was having some feeding issues with and was holding off on SBR’ing them until things got resolved. Now the AR-9/40 runs as it should with a heavier buffer so it is next on the SBR list. The AR-45 is picky about OAL cartridge length with the 230gr FMJ. If I seat the bullet a little deeper I have no issues. It is second in line for the SBR process.

  3. #3
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    I almost learned this lesson the hard way. One of my first SBR's was an Arsenal SLR-106CR. I submitted the Form 1 and then later took it shooting in its stock configuration. I then discovered that it had feeding issues. Arsenal couldn't fix it and eventually replaced it with another that was just as unreliable. Meanwhile, my Form 1 came back approved. I was able to cancel the Form 1 and received a $200 refund about a year later. If I had chopped the barrel, I would have been out $200 and the monkeys at Arsenal wouldn't have honored the warranty. Lesson learned. Always test fire a gun enough that you're confident that it will run 100%. For me this is a minimum of 200rds. If I see any hint of an issue, then I'll fire more. If there is an issue, you want to send the gun back to the manufacturer in its stock configuration. One of my recent purchases that I'll be Form 1'ing is a Polish Mini Beryl. I just put 110rds through it. It was 100% reliable and ejection was nice and consistent. I'll put another 90rds through it and then I'll be confident enough to submit the Form 1. You're on the right track. Shoot it enough to be confident that it's going to be reliable and then don't waste any more ammo.

  4. #4
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    Scorpions have good reps and my pistol and carbine have run flawlessly for thousands of rounds to include 147gr HPs, 115, & 124s. I would run a couple mags of your preferred ammo to include any HPs and make sure various popular type selected mags lock and feed.

    Otherwise with so many aftermarket parts I would think you can replace just about anything you don't like!

    Dennis.

  5. #5
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    Actually my FFL got back from vacation yesterday so I was able to go pick up my scorpion about an hour ago. Pretty neat, still dumb without a stock, but I think I’ll eventually like this thing. Although just manipulating the controls is pretty obvious that the factory right side selector is going to have to go. This is my first “submachine gun” style firearm.

    I’d probably prefer to test fire a couple hundred rounds like Bret says (I’m one of those guys that has to put at least 500+ rounds through a potential new carry gun before trusting it too) but with my continued weekly handgun sessions leaving my 9mm supplies in a depleted state I find the prospect of just “wasting” ammo shooting the Scorpion in its impractical factory configuration to be an unappealing prospect. So I guess it’s going to come down to picking a number I’m comfortable with.


    Once I do get this thing SBR’d I’m hoping I can find the factory CZ folding stock because right now they appear to be unobtanium.

  6. #6
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    Just to add to what others have said. You want to br comfortable that it will run. Sending it back for warranty or replacement gets tricky once it is NFA.
    Go Ukraine! Piss on the Russian dead.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bret View Post
    I almost learned this lesson the hard way. One of my first SBR's was an Arsenal SLR-106CR. I submitted the Form 1 and then later took it shooting in its stock configuration. I then discovered that it had feeding issues. Arsenal couldn't fix it and eventually replaced it with another that was just as unreliable. Meanwhile, my Form 1 came back approved. I was able to cancel the Form 1 and received a $200 refund about a year later. If I had chopped the barrel, I would have been out $200 and the monkeys at Arsenal wouldn't have honored the warranty. Lesson learned. Always test fire a gun enough that you're confident that it will run 100%. For me this is a minimum of 200rds. If I see any hint of an issue, then I'll fire more. If there is an issue, you want to send the gun back to the manufacturer in its stock configuration. One of my recent purchases that I'll be Form 1'ing is a Polish Mini Beryl. I just put 110rds through it. It was 100% reliable and ejection was nice and consistent. I'll put another 90rds through it and then I'll be confident enough to submit the Form 1. You're on the right track. Shoot it enough to be confident that it's going to be reliable and then don't waste any more ammo.
    Yea it kinda depends on what the gun is and what needs to be done to it to convert but I agree. Ideally you verify that it shoots ok first. Something that needs a barrel cut down I'd really want to test. Something like an AR lower I usually just assemble first to check and make sure it seems in spec.

    Actually just bought a B&T APC9 pro to play with and form 1'd without shooting it first. Just haven't had a chance to get out. I'll end up testing it before it gets engraved but at the end of the day I can always cancel the form 1 if the gun has issues.

  8. #8
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    When I bought my Scorpion when they came out, I E-Filed the same night. Shot it once or twice and waited over a month to get the Stock Kit from CZ. Form 1 was approved in about 20 days or so.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by ndmiller View Post
    When I bought my Scorpion when they came out, I E-Filed the same night. Shot it once or twice and waited over a month to get the Stock Kit from CZ. Form 1 was approved in about 20 days or so.

    Assuming everything passes muster and I decide to go ahead with the Form 1, I’m really really hoping I can find that factory CZ stock, as even the best aftermarket option (probably the Reptilia Zhukov setup) suffers a bit from not being designed to integrate from the ground up with the Scorpion.
    I’m honestly a little surprised with how popular the Scorpion is that there aren’t more purpose-built aftermarket folding stocks available for it. Pretty much everything out there is a stock designed for a different gun and paired with an adapter of some sort to fit on the CZ, so you end up with stuff that has a cheekweld that could be too high for the factory irons, or obstructs the ejection port when folded, or is just straight-up too bulky for the gun.

  10. #10
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    I shoot it non-NFA first. Having had some lower issues come up with AR15s, it's nice to know it's good before going through $$ & Time process of NFAing something.

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