Ghost Guns

[mlberry]

This seems to be all the rage since the Democrats what to ban them. Realistically are they actually a problem (assuming that you are in favor of gun prohibition)? Just how practical is it for the average person who has no specialized equipment to build one of these things? Assume a workbench, a simple toolbox (wrenches, screwdrivers, hammer etc. The sort of things found in the beginner tool set you would find in a hardware store) and a power hand drill. As for skills lets assume low (can do simple household jobs but unfamiliar with power tools and has none except for the drill. So how would this person go about building an AR from an 80% receiver and parts? Is it even cost effective? How many guns would you have to manufacture to recover your costs?

[prepare]

They are only a problem for big brother and their control agenda.

[omegajb]

I think it's important to understand that gun control groups have almost unlimited resources because of people like Mike Bloomberg, and they have multi-million dollar marketing firms that test the terms they use.

If you notice, they all use the same terms.
Common sense
Military style
Weapons of war
Ghost guns
Universal Background Checks
Red flags laws
Gun safety laws

Most people who aren't gun owners and even the Fudds when asked shouldn't we have common sense gun safety laws?
When you use these terms you don't have to defend the constitutionally or even how they would work.

As to ghost guns, that's a scary term for the unaware.

It's easy to get public support when they make claims that criminals and terrorists can easily get ghost guns etc.

Getting back to the expense, you only need a couple of things. A work bench, a drill press and time.
The 80% lowers have jigs that show you where to mill and drill.

I haven't built on because anything made with a drill press that I make would have some tolerance issues, but I've seen some good mill jobs.

Now that 3D printers are getting better and plastics are stronger gun control becomes more moot5.

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk

[mlberry]

My question is really aimed at the practicality for the novice. So all you need is a drill press and nothing else? What quality drill press? Some are table top and some are heavy precision machine tool types.

[ccosby]

My question is really aimed at the practicality for the novice. So all you need is a drill press and nothing else? What quality drill press? Some are table top and some are heavy precision machine tool types.

Depends on the gun. The glock 80% lowers really don't require that much other than a drill press and some hand tools. Hell you could probably use a drill although I wouldn't recommend it. With the right jigs an 80% ar lower can be done with some pretty basic tools. The P320 80% lower looks like it can be done with their jig, a mallet, Dremel, and hacksaw in addition to a drill or drill press and well a vice.

As someone else pointed out a lot of people screw 80%'s up or they work but look like crap. I've seen some really nice work done though with basic tools and with things like the ghost gunner. With the later you see the layer cuts on the inside but they can do pretty good work overall.

[mlberry]

What I was actually trying to find out was if machining a receiver out of aluminum (I should have specified that) was actually practical for the average person. I can see someone doing it who has a lot of money and a fully equipped machine shop, but realistically are all that many people going to tool up (which can be very expensive to only make one of a kind) and actually make the things? And I really didn't want to get into the gun control thing.

But since someone raised the issue: As for background checks I am old enough to remember when we didn't have them and you could order by mail. That's when I got my first rifle a British N4 Mk1 Lee Enfield. That was back when the 2nd Amendment actually meant something. So I am not in favor of background checks/1968 gun control act. All that was a reaction to Kennedy's assassination.

[MSW]

It depends on your work/life experience, I guess.

I used to run the old analog Bridgeport vertical mill & lathes in a machine shop. While I am not trained as a machinist, I understand the basics & could do it. I don’t think it would be very pretty with just a drill press. But I suspect it would work. Steady, horizontal movement, which is what a vertical mill with a moving table & vise is what gives you smooth cuts, assuming proper endmill selection. I don’t know how that would be replicated, unless it was with another purchase: a hand cranked, 2 axis table with vise that would fit the lower.

However, just like reloads—I trust mine, but I wouldn’t trust someone else’s.

I don’t think the average person I interact with daily could make a pretty lower with a drill press, OP. Functional? Maybe. Please don’t take it as a personal slight. The machinist who trained me back in the 1970s could “see” if a part was a few thousandths off—I don’t know if it was a trick or not—but he was like Mozart—but for machining. The man was an artist with steel, aluminum, brass & anything else he worked on. If you have the innate skills he had, maybe you could. All the 80% I’ve encountered look like someone with a Dremel tried to build an ashtray.

ETA: the folks most likely to benefit from an 80% that looks “professional” know someone who has a CNC 3-axis machine & either bought or downloaded the code, so “machining” is a simple push of a button, like the “Ghost Gun” gizmo. Since I know how an analog vertical endmill works, I suspect ATF doesn’t “believe” pushing a button is the same as running an analog machine that took several hours to mill a lower, vs quite literally, the push of a button.

But I suspect our Founding Fathers never would have envisioned this digital forum, either.....

[Red*Lion]

What I was actually trying to find out was if machining a receiver out of aluminum (I should have specified that) was actually practical for the average person.

Yes practical and easy for an average person with some mechanical ability to mill out an 80% lower receiver.

[GH41]

Every home finished 80% lower I have seen looks like a rat chewed it. If I wanted a ghost gun I would just buy a rifle from an individual. If they ban them it isn't going to matter if the rifle has a serial number or not when you get caught with it. "How many guns would you have to manufacture to recover your costs" If you are planning on breaking the law you shouldn't be discussing it here. It is not legal to convert 80% lowers and sell them.

[mlberry]

Has anyone here actually built one of these things?