Ghost Guns

[mlberry]

Well given that you can get finished lowers for $99 and it will cost you at least $100 for a drill press, in terms of cost it wouldn't be cheaper to make only one receiver out of an 80% lower. Then you have to factor in the value you place on your time. So I can see doing one as a hobby or simply to avoid a background check for the principle of the thing. The only way it actually gets cheaper is if you make a lot of them and as has been pointed out, if you sell them without the proper licenses, you are breaking the law. I wonder how many you would have to make to get good enough to make one you would actually like?

[Cokie]

I’ve only seen one polymer 80% lower and the guy that finished it told me the safety didn’t work. Sounds pretty useless to me. Maybe aluminum ones are better.

[ViperTwoSix]

The concern with 80% receivers isn’t that law abiding citizens will build them into untraceable weapons and overthrow the government. The concerns is that people who should not have weapons (by law) can pretty easily just make them. Gang members, violent felons, drug cartel members, terrorist cells, etc. Since 80 lowers are not currently regulated any of the above could potentially arm themselves (even if they did turn out crap quality) with weapons to carry out their cause.

Just ask yourself, should EVERYONE be allowed to own firearms without any restrictions whatsoever? If no, and a person should not own a firearm, should they then be allowed to make one anyway? If no, they you probably fall in the group that believes SOME level of restrictions are necessary.

[DG23]

The concern with 80% receivers isn’t that law abiding citizens will build them into untraceable weapons and overthrow the government. The concerns is that people who should not have weapons (by law) can pretty easily just make them. Gang members, violent felons, drug cartel members, terrorist cells, etc. Since 80 lowers are not currently regulated any of the above could potentially arm themselves (even if they did turn out crap quality) with weapons to carry out their cause.

Just ask yourself, should EVERYONE be allowed to own firearms without any restrictions whatsoever? If no, and a person should not own a firearm, should they then be allowed to make one anyway? If no, they you probably fall in the group that believes SOME level of restrictions are necessary.

Criminals that are not 'allowed' to buy guns have still been able to obtain them (easily) long before 80% receivers became available or became a 'thing'.

Banning 80% stuff will not change or solve anything. If a criminal wants to illegally obtain a gun he will find a way regardless of any goofy laws on the books.

Criminals do not give a crap about or abide by laws. The only people that are harmed / affected by these goofy bans and needless restrictions are the people that DO abide by laws.


By your logic there should definitely be a background check required before anyone is allowed to purchase a brick. Because you know, any random criminal could just walk into their local box store, buy one and hit me upside the head with it... We definitely need a law to prevent that sort of stuff from happening.

While we are at it - The companies that manufacture bricks should be liable for damages when and if some criminal uses that brick in such a way. If they never made that brick to begin with the criminal would have never been able to hit me with it...

[Five_Point_Five_Six]

The concern with 80% receivers isn’t that law abiding citizens will build them into untraceable weapons and overthrow the government. The concerns is that people who should not have weapons (by law) can pretty easily just make them. Gang members, violent felons, drug cartel members, terrorist cells, etc. Since 80 lowers are not currently regulated any of the above could potentially arm themselves (even if they did turn out crap quality) with weapons to carry out their cause.

Just ask yourself, should EVERYONE be allowed to own firearms without any restrictions whatsoever? If no, and a person should not own a firearm, should they then be allowed to make one anyway? If no, they you probably fall in the group that believes SOME level of restrictions are necessary.

I believe felons and any free man should be able to have guns. I also believe that if someone is too dangerous to own a gun because they can't keep from murdering/raping/assaulting people that they shouldn't be in society at all.

So you could say I don't believe in any gun control or restrictions on what a free man can possess.

[Cokie]

Just ask yourself, should EVERYONE be allowed to own firearms without any restrictions whatsoever?

Yes.

I don’t want to get political in here, especially since the OP said don’t. But your natural rights turned into purchased privileges from the government. The BoR was supposed to be untouchable, buts it’s been thoroughly touched. People in this country are voting to criminalize simple speech.

What did you miss when you read “shall not be infringed”

[lysander]

Questions:

1) How often has the serial number alone been used to associate a person to a firearm used in the commission of a crime in order to get a conviction, in the absence of any other physical evidence, i.e., finger-prints on the firearm?

2) How often does a serial number check on a firearm abandoned at a crime scene return a valid suspect?

[MA2_Navy_Veteran]

The concern with 80% receivers isn’t that law abiding citizens will build them into untraceable weapons and overthrow the government. The concerns is that people who should not have weapons (by law) can pretty easily just make them. Gang members, violent felons, drug cartel members, terrorist cells, etc. Since 80 lowers are not currently regulated any of the above could potentially arm themselves (even if they did turn out crap quality) with weapons to carry out their cause.
Just ask yourself, should EVERYONE be allowed to own firearms without any restrictions whatsoever? If no, and a person should not own a firearm, should they then be allowed to make one anyway? If no, they you probably fall in the group that believes SOME level of restrictions are necessary.

There are lots of different "concerns" (depending on the perspective) when it comes to 80% receivers, but the only three that actually matter are:

Firstly - At what point should a simple hunk of metal or plastic be considered to be a "firearm" & regulated? - To which the answer is currently set at ABOVE/PAST/BEYOND 80% completion. This can change by simply lowering the current 80% completion standard to something even less "complete".

Secondly - Does a law-abiding citizen have the inherent right to manufacture a weapon for their personal use? - To which the U.S. Supreme Court (US v Heller among others) has held that they (the law-abiding citizenry) do have such a right, though it is not an unlimited right (in effect, they cannot build NFA items like machine guns, bombs/IEDs, or say - Nukes)

& Lastly - "What can be done to force a criminal to obey ANY gun control law(s)? - To which the answer is simply & incontrovertibly : Not a damn thing. Not now, or Ever.
The Only absolute 100% sure way of keeping guns out of the hands of criminals... is by killing the criminals.

[prepare]

Laws and restrictions only restrict the law abiding. Laws and restrictions do nothing to restrict the criminal element.

[jbdesigns]

There are lots of different "concerns" (depending on the perspective) when it comes to 80% receivers, but the only three that actually matter are:

Firstly - At what point should a simple hunk of metal or plastic be considered to be a "firearm" & regulated? - To which the answer is currently set at ABOVE/PAST/BEYOND 80% completion. This can change by simply lowering the current 80% completion standard to something even less "complete".

Secondly - Does a law-abiding citizen have the inherent right to manufacture a weapon for their personal use? - To which the U.S. Supreme Court (US v Heller among others) has held that they (the law-abiding citizenry) do have such a right, though it is not an unlimited right (in effect, they cannot build NFA items like machine guns, bombs/IEDs, or say - Nukes)

& Lastly - "What can be done to force a criminal to obey ANY gun control law(s)? - To which the answer is simply & incontrovertibly : Not a damn thing. Not now, or Ever.
The Only absolute 100% sure way of keeping guns out of the hands of criminals... is by killing the criminals.

Perfect!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk