Ghost Guns

[Diamondback]

Has anyone here actually built one of these things?

Writeup on my experience at...
https://redstate.com/diary/diamondba...-lower-n236831
https://redstate.com/diary/diamondba...earned-n236864

You CAN do it freehand with a cordless hand drill on polymers... doesn't necessarily mean you SHOULD. And a small vise is a REAL big help.

[Renegade]

Has anyone here actually built one of these things?

Many. If you use the latest methods like a jig and Router, the work is outstanding.

Drill press method is like 5+ year old technology.

[Red*Lion]

I have milled six 80% lowers into functional lowers. All but one, the first one I milled look and work just as well as any finished lower that I have bought. I used a drill press and jig/router combo. I am far from the most mechanically inclined. Have the correct tools and take your time. Not difficult.

[gas1]

80%or not average criminal does not have money to buy a jig and drill, router, or mill they just steal them , they can steal guns easier
The organized crime have millions to set up a entire machine shop and make what ever they want any way

[prepare]

F4157FAD-7CDA-4F08-B291-3FF30F01376C.jpeg

[ViperTwoSix]

By your logic there should definitely be a background check required before anyone is allowed to purchase a brick. Because you know, any random criminal could just walk into their local box store, buy one and hit me upside the head with it... We definitely need a law to prevent that sort of stuff from happening.

While we are at it - The companies that manufacture bricks should be liable for damages when and if some criminal uses that brick in such a way. If they never made that brick to begin with the criminal would have never been able to hit me with it...

Correct, criminals have been able to easily get guns before 80 lowers... theft and straw purchase are both easy. However, they were not able to do it legally. There is always a threat of detection to some extent. That threat of detection is eliminated if I can buy everything need legally.

Correct, some criminals don’t care about laws. Does that mean that laws should just not exist? Just because I do not steal, should there be no law against theft?

Your quote above (as well as mine directly above) are extremes and exaggerate a concept past reasonable logic. I don’t fall in either. I don’t believe 80 lowers should be banned. Buy one and build it if you heart desires. I also don’t like the idea of the meth addict across the street from me with 3 robbery convictions who can’t buy at gun at the shop being able to just build one.

[ViperTwoSix]

There are lots of different "concerns" (depending on the perspective) when it comes to 80% receivers, but the only three that actually matter are:

Firstly - At what point should a simple hunk of metal or plastic be considered to be a "firearm" & regulated? - To which the answer is currently set at ABOVE/PAST/BEYOND 80% completion. This can change by simply lowering the current 80% completion standard to something even less "complete".

Secondly - Does a law-abiding citizen have the inherent right to manufacture a weapon for their personal use? - To which the U.S. Supreme Court (US v Heller among others) has held that they (the law-abiding citizenry) do have such a right, though it is not an unlimited right (in effect, they cannot build NFA items like machine guns, bombs/IEDs, or say - Nukes)

& Lastly - "What can be done to force a criminal to obey ANY gun control law(s)? - To which the answer is simply & incontrovertibly : Not a damn thing. Not now, or Ever.
The Only absolute 100% sure way of keeping guns out of the hands of criminals... is by killing the criminals.

To your first point... I do not know. I am personally fine with the current 80 % standard. Once you complete more than 80, you have manufactured a firearm.

To your second point... the Heller decision solidified the right to keep and bear arms, not manufacture them. Manufacturing can be regulated any number of ways.

To your third point, you are correct to a degree. I agree if someone really wants a gun they can find a way to get one. But what hurdles do they have to jump? How high is the risk of detection and what are the consequences of caught? Is the risk worth the reward?

[Arik]

Correct, some criminals don’t care about laws. Does that mean that laws should just not exist? Just because I do not steal, should there be no law against theft?

Your quote above (as well as mine directly above) are extremes and exaggerate a concept past reasonable logic. I don’t fall in either. I don’t believe 80 lowers should be banned. Buy one and build it if you heart desires. I also don’t like the idea of the meth addict across the street from me with 3 robbery convictions who can’t buy at gun at the shop being able to just build one.

There are laws IF you commit theft. And there are lawd IF a criminal posseses a firearm. BTW....how do you look at black powder and pre 1900/antique things that go pew pew pew?? Neither are considered firearms. So a 1899 Mauser 8mm or a black powder handgun can be had by any criminal. Sure, not as sexy as a 1911 or fast to reload but certainly deadly and capable

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[ViperTwoSix]

There are laws IF you commit theft. And there are lawd IF a criminal posseses a firearm. BTW....how do you look at black powder and pre 1900/antique things that go pew pew pew?? Neither are considered firearms. So a 1899 Mauser 8mm or a black powder handgun can be had by any criminal. Sure, not as sexy as a 1911 or fast to reload but certainly deadly and capable

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All true. In the state I live in I can also go to the swap meet and buy a rifle with cash and not even get my ID checked. I am not against 80 lowers, or black power, or Curio and Relic firearms.

I am all for liberty and freedom. If you, Arik, want to buy an 80 lower and build a working firearm, I think you, Arik, should be able to do so. Now, if the the meth addicts up the street want to buy an 80 lower and build a working firearm then I have an issue with that. I also understand no law will affect one without the other in that scenario. I do not advocate enacting laws or regulation against 80 lowers, but I also try to understand the point on view of those that do.

[AndyLate]

Ya'll go ahead and build your fancy Casper rifles. I just want to assemble a slide/slam fire 12 gauge. Why? Absolutely no good reason except I can.

Andy