Black Box search warrant???? Tiger Woods crash

**jmoore** · 03-03-21, 10:01

LEOs going to pull his black box data today.

What say ye about this?
What about pulling video data from a cam?

Pros & Cons both ways.

Drive safe!

geezer john

**Gabriel556** · 03-03-21, 10:43

My opinion as an employee of a vehicle manufacturer, for single vehicle accidents where there were no external fatalities, leave it be. Crash forensics should tell them enough and if insurance was wanting to subrogate the claim to a responsible party, they should check cell phone records and or the camera footage along the route he took.

Now if it was a drunk that hit a school bus full of kids or something, the vehicle cams and audio recorders are fair game.

**Esq.** · 03-03-21, 11:02

Originally Posted by Gabriel556

My opinion as an employee of a vehicle manufacturer, for single vehicle accidents where there were no external fatalities, leave it be. Crash forensics should tell them enough and if insurance was wanting to subrogate the claim to a responsible party, they should check cell phone records and or the camera footage along the route he took.

Now if it was a drunk that hit a school bus full of kids or something, the vehicle cams and audio recorders are fair game.

Only way I could see it being relevant is if Tiger thinks some vehicle defect caused or contributed to the crash. Agreed, in a single vehicle accident, not much reason to dump the box....

**Grand58742** · 03-03-21, 11:08

Having been an accident investigator, the data the vehicle can show is certainly helpful in determining the cause, final speed, condition of the vehicle, etc. It's not for fault purposes, but helpful for the accuracy of the final report without having to take a metric ton of measurements and plug them into the formula.

Fun fact, most modern vehicles store that information in at least five different places.

**Gabriel556** · 03-03-21, 11:35

I agree with both of you here as well. I’m betting his legal team is hoping to push an external influence to place blame.
Grand, how common is this type of export?

**Grand58742** · 03-03-21, 11:51

Originally Posted by Gabriel556

I agree with both of you here as well. I’m betting his legal team is hoping to push an external influence to place blame.
Grand, how common is this type of export?

It's more of a due diligence for both LEOs and insurance companies rather than pushing to blame an external factor. However, if something was found mechanically wrong with the vehicle that certainly plays a factor in assigning responsibility. Problem is, there are far too many external factors that won't be recorded for it to be blamed on mechanical problems solely.

As for how often, I'm not sure, but I know I would have requested it in difficult to explain situations or where I absolutely couldn't determine minimum speed. (ran a fatality accident investigation like that in Germany) The thing is, such data is time sensitive and can corrupt pretty quickly if not retrieved. Or on "older" modern vehicles it was. Honestly, it's been a few years since I've been in that world, but I'd guess vehicles have gotten better about storing the data since that time.

Regardless, it's not improper for the LOs or insurance companies to request that information especially if there is no criminal or civil case involved. It's actually prudent just to dot the I's and cross the T's in a high profile case like this one.

**Grand58742** · 03-03-21, 12:32

Originally Posted by Gabriel556

I agree with both of you here as well. I’m betting his legal team is hoping to push an external influence to place blame.
Grand, how common is this type of export?

Honestly, didn't care enough to look at footage or pics from the scene until you mentioned this. After looking over the accident scene, I probably would have requested the "black box" data as well. (understanding it's not really a black box like an aircraft has) And either asked for consent from the vehicle owner or requested search authority on such a thing if refused.

Basically, I can't see any tire marks from the aerial views of the scene that were released. Obviously, I'm not on scene and have no idea what Tiger has told the personnel investigating his accident, but tire marks can tell a very complete story of an accident and the events leading up to it. The lack thereof tends to be a red flag to any investigator depending on what the driver has told them. Long story short, lack of tire marks would lead an investigator to believe no braking action was taken prior to the point of impact. I.E. driver says "I slammed on the brakes" and no tire marks are found, it's going to lead an investigator to believe the driver is lying. There are ways of seeing "shadow skids" (impending skid marks) if you're on scene, but the photographs I've seen can't determine that.

Based on the damage to the vehicle and the lack of skids, I would lean towards the theory he was still going at full velocity when he exited the roadway.

**Averageman** · 03-03-21, 12:37

I would almost bet that since Tiger does commercials for a well known auto maker, some of this might be to show that it wasn't their product that was at fault but it was actually the Drivers and they want to point that out in big letters.