Surefire disappointing output

[motor51]

I’m not trying to ruffle any feathers and I’ve spent thousands on Surefire products in the past. Here’s my complaint. Why does Surefire not up the candela in their M300 and M600 lights? I have a new M300 mounted on an AR pistol and was doing a few tests with it compared to an older 350 lumen rail mount 1 from streamlight. The streamlight just seemed like a better performer. I also had a 1000 lumen X300 on my duty handgun. We had a suspect that was in a back bedroom and I was illuminating him from outside using a large tree for cover. My X300 allowed me to somewhat see him through the window (the widow caused a glare)but my partner with a TLR-1HL was lighting him up like no window was there. Surefire lights are well proven and is a good light but Is there a specific reason Surefire doesn’t up the candela?


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[Adrenaline_6]

They have been lagging behind for awhile now. Price vs. performance on SF is sadly wanting.

[Five_Point_Five_Six]

They seem to be content resting on the laurels that the brand name brings, and they've been absolutely left in the dust performance wise by Cloud Defensive, Modlite, and even Gene Malkoff building lights by himself in his garage.

The best way to get more candela from your Surefire M300 is to buy a Malkoff E1HT head for it. The SF M300 is 500 lumens with 7600 candela. The E1HT is 325 lumens with 23,500 candela and it absolutely murders the Surefire 300 series scout head. Lumens can be and often are deceiving, but candela rarely is.

I have the Arisaka 300 E1HT on my backpack AR, and I put the Malkoff E2XT on an old Surefire 2 cell Scout. The E2XT is 500 lumens with 55,000 candela and it too murders every head Surefire produces. The E2HT is 35,000 candela with a little slimmer head. I run them with 16650 rechargeables.

[motor51]

They seem to be content resting on the laurels that the brand name brings, and they've been absolutely left in the dust performance wise by Cloud Defensive, Modlite, and even Gene Malkoff building lights by himself in his garage.

The best way to get more candela from your Surefire M300 is to buy a Malkoff E1HT head for it. The SF M300 is 500 lumens with 7600 candela. The E1HT is 325 lumens with 23,500 candela and it absolutely murders the Surefire 300 series scout head. Lumens can be and often are deceiving, but candela rarely is.

I have the Arisaka 300 E1HT on my backpack AR, and I put the Malkoff E2XT on an old Surefire 2 cell Scout. The E2XT is 500 lumens with 55,000 candela and it too murders every head Surefire produces. The E2HT is 35,000 candela with a little slimmer head. I run them with 16650 rechargeables.

Thanks for the info, I’m going to look into them.


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[WickedWillis]

As I learn more about lights and illumination, I agree with the weakness in candela of the surefires. I have them on most of my guns too. I recently got to use a friends modlite and was pretty shocked at the output difference compared to my newer DF Scouts. Durable as hell, but lacking in output.

[Rayrevolver]

I just ordered the E1HT this morning. Looking to upgrade my Rosch Works SL1. It's on sale, plus 20% off to sign up for his emails, was $105 shipped. Cheaper than dudes selling them used.

I can compare it to a X300, X300U 500L, and a Protac 2 Rail. Was looking for more throw at 12 o clock in an SBR.

[motor51]

I just ordered the E1HT this morning. Looking to upgrade my Rosch Works SL1. It's on sale, plus 20% off to sign up for his emails, was $105 shipped. Cheaper than dudes selling them used.

I can compare it to a X300, X300U 500L, and a Protac 2 Rail. Was looking for more throw at 12 o clock in an SBR.

A review and comparison would be great. Thank you sir


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[1168]

In my opinion, Malkoff, Cloud Defensive, and Modlight are as durable as Surefire. Add to that some of the other guys making bodies, like Arisaka, and Reptilia. They have all the super duper ingress protection ratings as well as other considerations, and they aren’t cutting corners.

I strongly endorse Malkoff over Surefire heads on compatible bodies, and use the shit out of Modlights and OWLs as well.

[Entryteam]

In my opinion, Malkoff, Cloud Defensive, and Modlight are as durable as Surefire. Add to that some of the other guys making bodies, like Arisaka, and Reptilia. They have all the super duper ingress protection ratings as well as other considerations, and they aren’t cutting corners.

I strongly endorse Malkoff over Surefire heads on compatible bodies, and use the shit out of Modlights and OWLs as well.

I always replace the incandescent heads in a surefire with Malkoff LED inserts. SO much brighter, especially indoors.

[1168]

Like I said, pure speculation on my part. But logically if Surefire could just stick a brighter diode in and call it a day, obviously they would do it. The devil is always in the details.

brighter diode would be for more lumens, not candela. Surefire does just fine on lumens. More than adequate. Somebody that is more knowledgeable than I on lenses and reflectors would have to comment further.

And the details are always obscure and poorly understood. Like Colt for example far outlasts its competition, especially short barreled variants,

Colt outlasts KAC? I think your Colt analogy is spot on. Surefire is Colt, and KAC is Modlight, Cloud, and Malkoff. At least Colt made a couple of rifles that were competitive with KAC in most practical terms.

and delivers that for a lesser price than their milspec counterparts like FN.

I get what you’re trying to say, but FN is the only real milspec counterpart to a Colt M4, and FN is cheaper.

Could also be compatibility across the board with their IR stuff. For all we know the .gov boys don't like certain wavelengths of visible light because it jacks with night vision or something.

No, not at all a reason. Although, their IR lights have one uniquely appealing feature despite not being the best on the market, and having little or no military application as a weaponlight.

because we're talking about people who still use A2 profile barrels after all.

Again, I definitely see what your getting at here, and this probably contributes greatly to Surefire’s sales.

However, big Army and Reserves has switched to the “SOCOM” barrel, which began years ago. I’m sure there are a few gov profiles floating around, but you’d have to look. I dunno about all other branches. Its possible to make a case for Gov profile being better on weight.

Surefire is not the only contract light for DoD, although I believe they are the most common by a very large margin. Surefire is NOT the toughest, most reliable, or most durable light on the market. 10 years ago, they were.


The most likely explanation for why Surefire doesn’t worry about candela is threefold: 1) they work, and as long as people buy them, why change? Especially if a contract already exists. I mean, they have a legacy reputation. 2) the average user only knows lumens, and Surefire could easily be confused for a marketing firm. 3) the average user, even among professionals, has no understanding of how to use a highly focused light, and uses spill as a crutch.