Surefire disappointing output

[Rayrevolver]

A review and comparison would be great. Thank you sir

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

This is probably better than anything I am going to provide, as far as "beamshots."
https://imgur.com/a/YaXGcaJ

I will give some general observations with the lights. I don't have the equipment to take good photos of the beams. Cellphone in hand is not going to really work.

I'm just spitballing. My knowledge of lights is I press the clicky thing and it comes on. Given their time in the field though and the R&D budgets they have, I would be willing to bet that they have their reasons for making the choices that they do.

If you are happy with SF then there is nothing we can say to change your mind. If you have an older 6P/G2 series Surefire (especially halogen) gathering dust, try his upgrade to see what the fuss is about:

https://malkoffdevices.com/collectio...re-and-malkoff

I also like and own a half dozen SF lights, but when their 80 lumen handhelds were getting passed up by cheap Chinese LED lights I started looking around. I am not sure how Malkoff got started, but he was selling upgraded heads that "flashlight people" raved about, see my link above. That lead me to candlepower forums which was too technical, although interesting with great information. Kinda like a guy saying just tell me what good AR to buy and lets not talk about gas port size, buffer springs etc.

Anywho, I did finally join CPF last month to research lights, and again Malkoff still has a following after 10+ years. Still made in the USA and prices are reasonable but not cheap.

[Five_Point_Five_Six]

If SF were to release a scout light and handheld with comparable lumens/candela as their competitors, I'd buy one of each on the spot. The problem is, they're charging Modlite/Cloud money for an inferior product performance wise. The argument could be made that SF lights are proven in durability and longevity, which is true, but from what I've seen from Aaron Cowan of Sage Dynamics, Modlite and Cloud lights will hold up to far more abuse than myself and most others will put them through.

I know that SF has never been interested in being first to release something to the market, so they may have some lumen/candela monsters in the works. But until then, they'll continue to lose market share. With the exception of tailcaps and an X300U, there is no better pistol light yet, I haven't purchased a SF products in years, and all my SF lights with heads that can be upgraded/replaced by something from Gene Malkoff, have been.

[1168]

In my opinion, Malkoff, Cloud Defensive, and Modlight are as durable as Surefire. Add to that some of the other guys making bodies, like Arisaka, and Reptilia. They have all the super duper ingress protection ratings as well as other considerations, and they aren’t cutting corners.

I strongly endorse Malkoff over Surefire heads on compatible bodies, and use the shit out of Modlights and OWLs as well.

[okie]

This is probably better than anything I am going to provide, as far as "beamshots."
https://imgur.com/a/YaXGcaJ

I will give some general observations with the lights. I don't have the equipment to take good photos of the beams. Cellphone in hand is not going to really work.




If you are happy with SF then there is nothing we can say to change your mind. If you have an older 6P/G2 series Surefire (especially halogen) gathering dust, try his upgrade to see what the fuss is about:

https://malkoffdevices.com/collectio...re-and-malkoff

I also like and own a half dozen SF lights, but when their 80 lumen handhelds were getting passed up by cheap Chinese LED lights I started looking around. I am not sure how Malkoff got started, but he was selling upgraded heads that "flashlight people" raved about, see my link above. That lead me to candlepower forums which was too technical, although interesting with great information. Kinda like a guy saying just tell me what good AR to buy and lets not talk about gas port size, buffer springs etc.

Anywho, I did finally join CPF last month to research lights, and again Malkoff still has a following after 10+ years. Still made in the USA and prices are reasonable but not cheap.

I think the AR thing is probably a good analogy. My intuition is that Surefire is to lights what Colt is to ARs. In other words, poorly understood by the average user chasing bells and whistles.

[motor51]

I think the AR thing is probably a good analogy. My intuition is that Surefire is to lights what Colt is to ARs. In other words, poorly understood by the average user chasing bells and whistles.

I wouldn’t necessarily agree with that. I understand enough to know other companies make a durable light with more candela. I think the comparison to colt might be they will always have a huge following and buyers because of the name. Colt and Surefire are both great battle proven designs but there are other players in the game that are providing that same sense of reliability. Just my opinion. I am hoping someone can just explain what makes Surefire reliability suffer by adding candela.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[okie]

I wouldn’t necessarily agree with that. I understand enough to know other companies make a durable light with more candela. I think the comparison to colt might be they will always have a huge following and buyers because of the name. Colt and Surefire are both great battle proven designs but there are other players in the game that are providing that same sense of reliability. Just my opinion. I am hoping someone can just explain what makes Surefire reliability suffer by adding candela.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Like I said, pure speculation on my part. But logically if Surefire could just stick a brighter diode in and call it a day, obviously they would do it. The devil is always in the details.

And the details are always obscure and poorly understood. Like Colt for example far outlasts its competition, especially short barreled variants, and delivers that for a lesser price than their milspec counterparts like FN. But people complain about them failing to innovate because they don't have ambi this and free float that. They're innovating more than their competition, but it's on a molecular level, and civilian customers don't care about what they can't see.

The commercial market is fickle and skin deep. It never appreciates the bigger picture. Not saying the other guys are bad mind you. For home defense and LE customers, they may very well be the better choice. I would very much like to know why Surefire has opted not to use the same diodes though, because it could be almost anything. Temperature, EMP hardening, you name it. Could also be compatibility across the board with their IR stuff. For all we know the .gov boys don't like certain wavelengths of visible light because it jacks with night vision or something. Could even be something incredibly dumb and arbitrary they have to conform to in order to get contracts, or something that was once relevant but isn't anymore and just hasn't been changed because we're talking about people who still use A2 profile barrels after all.

[motor51]

Like I said, pure speculation on my part. But logically if Surefire could just stick a brighter diode in and call it a day, obviously they would do it. The devil is always in the details.

And the details are always obscure and poorly understood. Like Colt for example far outlasts its competition, especially short barreled variants, and delivers that for a lesser price than their milspec counterparts like FN. But people complain about them failing to innovate because they don't have ambi this and free float that. They're innovating more than their competition, but it's on a molecular level, and civilian customers don't care about what they can't see.

The commercial market is fickle and skin deep. It never appreciates the bigger picture. Not saying the other guys are bad mind you. For home defense and LE customers, they may very well be the better choice. I would very much like to know why Surefire has opted not to use the same diodes though, because it could be almost anything. Temperature, EMP hardening, you name it. Could also be compatibility across the board with their IR stuff. For all we know the .gov boys don't like certain wavelengths of visible light because it jacks with night vision or something. Could even be something incredibly dumb and arbitrary they have to conform to in order to get contracts, or something that was once relevant but isn't anymore and just hasn't been changed because we're talking about people who still use A2 profile barrels after all.

Well said. I think we are on the same page. I just would like to know the reason.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[okie]

Well said. I think we are on the same page. I just would like to know the reason.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Yea me too. Suspect it's all wrapped up in proprietary stuff and or unpublished specs though. That's this entire industry in a nutshell. The no brainer solution is just stick to Colt, Okay Ind, Lake City, Surefire, Aimpoint, and L3. Granted there are things out there that might be arguably nicer, but that's a foolproof formula for getting bombproof guns at an affordable price.

[1168]

Like I said, pure speculation on my part. But logically if Surefire could just stick a brighter diode in and call it a day, obviously they would do it. The devil is always in the details.

brighter diode would be for more lumens, not candela. Surefire does just fine on lumens. More than adequate. Somebody that is more knowledgeable than I on lenses and reflectors would have to comment further.

And the details are always obscure and poorly understood. Like Colt for example far outlasts its competition, especially short barreled variants,

Colt outlasts KAC? I think your Colt analogy is spot on. Surefire is Colt, and KAC is Modlight, Cloud, and Malkoff. At least Colt made a couple of rifles that were competitive with KAC in most practical terms.

and delivers that for a lesser price than their milspec counterparts like FN.

I get what you’re trying to say, but FN is the only real milspec counterpart to a Colt M4, and FN is cheaper.

Could also be compatibility across the board with their IR stuff. For all we know the .gov boys don't like certain wavelengths of visible light because it jacks with night vision or something.

No, not at all a reason. Although, their IR lights have one uniquely appealing feature despite not being the best on the market, and having little or no military application as a weaponlight.

because we're talking about people who still use A2 profile barrels after all.

Again, I definitely see what your getting at here, and this probably contributes greatly to Surefire’s sales.

However, big Army and Reserves has switched to the “SOCOM” barrel, which began years ago. I’m sure there are a few gov profiles floating around, but you’d have to look. I dunno about all other branches. Its possible to make a case for Gov profile being better on weight.

Surefire is not the only contract light for DoD, although I believe they are the most common by a very large margin. Surefire is NOT the toughest, most reliable, or most durable light on the market. 10 years ago, they were.


The most likely explanation for why Surefire doesn’t worry about candela is threefold: 1) they work, and as long as people buy them, why change? Especially if a contract already exists. I mean, they have a legacy reputation. 2) the average user only knows lumens, and Surefire could easily be confused for a marketing firm. 3) the average user, even among professionals, has no understanding of how to use a highly focused light, and uses spill as a crutch.

[Entryteam]

In my opinion, Malkoff, Cloud Defensive, and Modlight are as durable as Surefire. Add to that some of the other guys making bodies, like Arisaka, and Reptilia. They have all the super duper ingress protection ratings as well as other considerations, and they aren’t cutting corners.

I strongly endorse Malkoff over Surefire heads on compatible bodies, and use the shit out of Modlights and OWLs as well.

I always replace the incandescent heads in a surefire with Malkoff LED inserts. SO much brighter, especially indoors.