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Thread: Hardball vs. Hardball----Does Caliber Matter?

  1. #1
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    Hardball vs. Hardball----Does Caliber Matter?

    Let's say that the latest, greatest high tech ammunition offerings cease to be available to civilians and maybe even to LEO's except in very small quantities.

    But, various hardball ammo is available although even that is scarce and expensive. Given the current situation, that's not exactly a far fetched scenario.


    Does caliber matter at that point?

    I think, personally, I'd probably load up some 200 grain, lead, .45 Semi Wadcutters- the old HG 68 bullet....in that situation. The Semi Wadcutter is a decades long proven killer of mammals of all shapes and sizes.
    Last edited by Esq.; 03-22-21 at 09:20.
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    There's still the issue of recoil and capacity.
    Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

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    I was forced to carry ball ammo at one point in my career, I was one of the few guys that carried a 1911.

    It almost got me killed in one incident, it didn't put the guy down and I ran out of bb's before I thought to move to his head. It took one of the other lads shoving his commando over my shoulder and shooting the terrorist in the head to save my life.

    I later was told I had to start using a Hi Power also with ball. I had the same kind of attack and I shot the terrorist in the heart and then transitioned to a shot to the head. Problem solved.

    I became a 9mm fan that day.

    I will tell the truth that most people don't want to hear. You bullet construction will have less than 1% impact on the outcome of your gun fight. Tactics and shot placement, are what counts.

    The problem with handgun gun fights is that handguns suck at stopping people. Then we add the unknown of how many rounds will it take to stop that bad guy on that day. I really believe that on Monday the same bad guy make take only 1 round to stop but on Tuesday due to factors outside of anyone's control that same guy might take 20 rounds to stop him

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    Quote Originally Posted by yoni View Post
    I was forced to carry ball ammo at one point in my career, I was one of the few guys that carried a 1911.

    It almost got me killed in one incident, it didn't put the guy down and I ran out of bb's before I thought to move to his head. It took one of the other lads shoving his commando over my shoulder and shooting the terrorist in the head to save my life.

    I later was told I had to start using a Hi Power also with ball. I had the same kind of attack and I shot the terrorist in the heart and then transitioned to a shot to the head. Problem solved.
    I'm missing something.

    What would the difference have been had you hit the terr in the heart and head with a .45?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sinister View Post
    I'm missing something.

    What would the difference have been had you hit the terr in the heart and head with a .45?
    He means the difference s the capacity is the difference. 9mm ball and 45 ball perform almost identically. With ball perfect shot placement is key due to the small wounds produced by ball. He means he shot the terrorist in the chest with all (assuming 8) shots and ran out. The shots were ineffective so he needed a head shot, but because of the limited capacity he didn't have any more bullets for a head shot

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    Id still stick with 9mm. I agree with Yoni that tactics and shot placement are going to be the big factors in winning the fight. Ive seen a lot of dudes killed with cheap FMJ ammo. Many even dropped DRT.

    Dont get me wrong, Im not advocating FMJ over a good JHP. From what Ive seen on the street I do believe that hollow points are more effective than FMJ, but I dont think they are a large amount more effective. But since handguns suck anyways Ill take any advantage I can get. I think a 45 FMH will be more effective than a 9mm FMJ but I think the benefits of more ammo and less recoil outweigh those advantages.
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    Correct, I ran out of ammo with only the limited capacity of the 1911.


    When you have a guy on you with a axe trying to bury it in your head, you would be amazed at how fast your trigger finger can work.

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    The question only you can answer is would you have emptied a 9 without going for the head as well. Critical thinking kinda goes ass up in those situations. My guess is the result would have been exactly the same but ...

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    People laugh at the 'Vibe for carrying M882 / Q4318 ball on the streets of the big city.

    Yoni knows (as do urban MEs) that it's where the bullet hits and does it penetrate.

    Q4318 is essentially +P 124 grain FMJ.

    Q4318 is cheap and reliable. Pre panic, it was $200 / case.

    Some urban thugs are huge. They look like NFL linemen. They're as big as black bears. I want to be sure of penetration.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yoni View Post
    I was forced to carry ball ammo at one point in my career, I was one of the few guys that carried a 1911.

    It almost got me killed in one incident, it didn't put the guy down and I ran out of bb's before I thought to move to his head. It took one of the other lads shoving his commando over my shoulder and shooting the terrorist in the head to save my life.
    How's your hearing on that side today?

    Quote Originally Posted by yoni View Post
    I later was told I had to start using a Hi Power also with ball. I had the same kind of attack and I shot the terrorist in the heart and then transitioned to a shot to the head. Problem solved.

    I became a 9mm fan that day.

    I will tell the truth that most people don't want to hear. You bullet construction will have less than 1% impact on the outcome of your gun fight. Tactics and shot placement, are what counts.

    The problem with handgun gun fights is that handguns suck at stopping people. Then we add the unknown of how many rounds will it take to stop that bad guy on that day. I really believe that on Monday the same bad guy make take only 1 round to stop but on Tuesday due to factors outside of anyone's control that same guy might take 20 rounds to stop him
    Or until somoene with a long gun shows up to put the goblin down? Seems no lack of examples of that one.
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