Hardball vs. Hardball----Does Caliber Matter?

[Spooky1]

Thanks for the report Spooky1. IMHO observations about what projectiles do in hogs carries more weight than ballistic gelatin.

This morning, I met with a group of retired old goats for coffee and we discussed this issue. Two of the quorum spent a good part of their career investigating meth labs and had first hand knowledge on how a handgun performs when trying to stop a tweeker. The consensus was that even minor caliber rifles were not effective on a subject cranked up on meth unless you shot a lot of rounds into them. I inquired what the preferred weapon of choice would be should they need to rapidly incapacitate a determined attacker. The answer was "a Ford F250 at 75 mph."

No problem, I am glad I am able to share the little things I have experienced.

That is what I see the major difference with how effective all the hog hunting with pistols we did, the hog's were calm, well 95% were calm. With people there is that chemical experimentation alot of bad people do and that can keep them attacking longer with more violence. The hogs get adrenaline dump when hit with a slug but there not tweaking or on crap like PCP. This is why I like to listen to what everyone's experiences are, thank you.

[Ron3]

Darn Yani, I like Sex as much as anyone but you argument makes absolutely no sense. If you are horny then keep it to yourself but let’s keep it to guns…lmao. It was funny though.

I like sex more than anyone. 😁

It made sense to me and I liked it! 😄

[Disciple]

The consensus was that even minor caliber rifles were not effective on a subject cranked up on meth unless you shot a lot of rounds into them.

What about buckshot?

[Ron3]

What about buckshot?

Well, buckshot is certainly "ball ammo"...

A raging meth-head just might not be aware they've received a fatal injury. There may not be a "psychological" stop. Just like an animal.

The "physical" stop takes spinal damage, brain damage, damage to arms and hands so they cant use a weapon, or time to bleed out.

Buckshot is certainly capable of that. #1 buckshot (.30 cal. 40 grs) and larger would be best.

[Ron3]

It seems common .40 flat-nosed fmj would tear better holes than 9mm fmj.

Any comments / field experience about that?

My only experience was plinking at 100 yds using a 9mm carbine with fmj and .40 cal carbine with flat-nosed fmj side by side.

The .40 had more drop (6 inches vs 12 or so) but was noticeably louder when it smacked the targets.

[vicious_cb]

It seems common .40 flat-nosed fmj would tear better holes than 9mm fmj.

Any comments / field experience about that?

My only experience was plinking at 100 yds using a 9mm carbine with fmj and .40 cal carbine with flat-nosed fmj side by side.

The .40 had more drop (6 inches vs 12 or so) but was noticeably louder when it smacked the targets.

Flat nose anything is better than FMJ anything. Flat nose will cut tissue vs push it aside and let it rebound.

[okie]

Flat nose anything is better than FMJ anything. Flat nose will cut tissue vs push it aside and let it rebound.

On the skin yes, in the muscle tissue not really. That said, I've never heard any ME claim to be able to tell the difference between ball and flat nose. Just between ball and JHP.

[WillBrink]

Flat nose anything is better than FMJ anything. Flat nose will cut tissue vs push it aside and let it rebound.

I have always wondered if semi wad cutter type designs were under valued.

[Straight Shooter]

One of the FEW times I ever watched COPS...Ive never forgotten the episode, many many years ago.
State Trooper, forgot the state...in a Interstate Rest Area. Talking to an OLD man, appeared at least 75 or older, much older, but the poor old dude was a full blown alcoholic and drunk during this event. He wasnt as big around as two of my fingers, couldnt have weighed more than 100lbs.
Was being very belligerent to the Trooper, shit went sideways, Trooper shot this old dude at PBR...almost muzzle contact...with a S&W .45ACP. One shot. The guy literally acts like it never happened.
Looks down at his stomach where the shot was, says "WHY DID YOU SHOOT ME FOR", and stands there smokin a cig. I couldnt believe it.
He NEVER went down, and lived they said.

[T2C]

What about buckshot?

I am not aware of any incidents in our area where a meth addict was shot with buckshot.