Hardball vs. Hardball----Does Caliber Matter?

[yoni]

So let me get this straight… he said 45 didn’t stop someone in a shooting so he switches to a smaller bullet? Sounds weird to me but ok.

But that is exactly what I did.

Why.

Because all handguns SUCK for shooting people!

45 v 9mm is just as silly an argument in 2021 as saying a certain type of color of hair make a woman better at sex.


You can take a man that has tons of women and he can't tell you which color of hair makes the sex more enjoyable. Why because the blond he had sex with yesterday was terrible, but the black haired girl was great. But two days later it might be they both were terrible but the red haired girl rocked his world.

Gun fights with pistols are the same.

So my life has taught me the formula I shared about how we can't know anything about something that is impossible to prove. Which brought me to my economics of motion, the longer the gun can go bang and the faster I can accurately make it go bang the better.

9mm fits this bill in my mind. Easier to shoot fast and accurate and in my CZ I can have 22 rounds in the pistol.

[vicious_cb]

Which is why my primary target is it is close is to shoot them in the face. This became my way of doing things after my first 9mm shooting where I transitioned from the body to a head shot. So I got thinking if they are close enough, just start with the head.

You can carry for 45 or 460 Roland in good health.

Sometimes even a face shot wont work, Jared Reston took a .45 to the face, 3 to his vest, 1 to the leg and one through his ass that broke his hip and he still smoked the bad guy.

[Delta-3]

My point being .32 and .380 fmj should not be disrespected as much as they are.

I completely agree.

While maybe not the "optimum" caliber ( what is?) They certainly can be good enough to get the job done.

This video may help answer a lot of questions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6kUvi72s0Y

[Spooky1]

There's no magic number where velocity irrespective of bullet weight starts do anything. Generally speaking, around the 500 ft lbs level you start to see tearing in certain tissues. Depending on the tissue, it may even be dramatic, like in the liver or brain. Around 1k ft lbs is when you start seeing pretty significant tearing in muscle tissue, shattering of bones, etc.

This is exactly what I have seen when gutting Deer and Wild Hogs we have shot with Pistols and Big Bore Revolvers. I totally understand what your saying but since this is Tec. I'm not gonna derail this any further. 😎

[yoni]

Sometimes even a face shot wont work, Jared Reston took a .45 to the face, 3 to his vest, 1 to the leg and one through his ass that broke his hip and he still smoked the bad guy.

]

I never shoot just one shot when using a pistol. You put rounds into the target until they are down and out.

[T2C]

So let me get this straight… he said 45 didn’t stop someone in a shooting so he switches to a smaller bullet? Sounds weird to me but ok.

You'll like this even better. He was involved in two shooting incidents during the course of his career and he feels comfortable carrying a .38 Special J-Frame with two speed strips when he is out and about town.

I'd rather have him covering my six with a J-Frame than an inexperienced person carrying a hi-cap 9mm pistol.

[sinister]

Shot in the face with a 9mm, lost a tooth.

[WillBrink]

But that is exactly what I did.

Why.

Because all handguns SUCK for shooting people!

45 v 9mm is just as silly an argument in 2021 as saying a certain type of color of hair make a woman better at sex.


You can take a man that has tons of women and he can't tell you which color of hair makes the sex more enjoyable. Why because the blond he had sex with yesterday was terrible, but the black haired girl was great. But two days later it might be they both were terrible but the red haired girl rocked his world.

Gun fights with pistols are the same.

So my life has taught me the formula I shared about how we can't know anything about something that is impossible to prove. Which brought me to my economics of motion, the longer the gun can go bang and the faster I can accurately make it go bang the better.

9mm fits this bill in my mind. Easier to shoot fast and accurate and in my CZ I can have 22 rounds in the pistol.

Some people will not "get" it, no matter how much evidence, be it objective testing, or real world experience, is supplied. Some prefer to hang onto outdated and debunked concepts like "knock down" power, etc.

You can lead a horse to water, can't make him think.

[yoni]

Now we have cop shot in the face with 45 and isn't dead and we have soldier shot in face with 9mm and isn't dead.

Thank you, this proves my point better than a million words.

HANDGUNS SUCK. STOPPING POWER IS A UNICORN.

Carry what ever you want, if you are cool using a 45 that has the ability to carry 13 or more rounds in the mag have at it. If your like 99% of the people and can get slightly better speed and accuracy out of a 9mm then I think that is what you should carry.

My gun for when I want to go unarmed is a Glock 26 with a plus 2 mag.

[WillBrink]

Now we have cop shot in the face with 45 and isn't dead and we have soldier shot in face with 9mm and isn't dead.

Thank you, this proves my point better than a million words.

HANDGUNS SUCK. STOPPING POWER IS A UNICORN.

Carry what ever you want, if you are cool using a 45 that has the ability to carry 13 or more rounds in the mag have at it. If your like 99% of the people and can get slightly better speed and accuracy out of a 9mm then I think that is what you should carry.

My gun for when I want to go unarmed is a Glock 26 with a plus 2 mag.

There's a classic story where a trooper emptied a .357 revolver into a goblin* and the goblin returned fire with a single shot from a small caliber weapon (possibly a .22 but memory fuzzy) and the trooper died and the goblin lived. Demonstrating again the wide variability of outcomes with pistol rnds. If memory serves, the trooper even had a vest on, and it was just a truly unlikely way the single bullet struck him. Maybe others recall the details of that. There are of course too many confirmed events of goblins absorbing 10, 12, 14 etc rnds of (name typical duty load here) and fighting on until someone with a long gun showed up and put it down. Finally, the LEO I know and spoke to about the OIS they'd been involved with was, how surprised they were at the total lack of obvious visual feedback their rnds had any effects, making them think they'd missed their targets. That seems a common experience from what I gather. No doubt, all the above is what lead to the SOP of shooting until the threat is no longer a threat vs older approaches such as shoot and asses and such.

* = There was some speculation that he had .38 in the .357 and I'm not sure of that was ever fully ascertained or not.