Hardball vs. Hardball----Does Caliber Matter?

[yoni]

I have a project I wanted to get to and didn't have the time, and now when I have the time, can't get the ammo.

I am very curious about the super light Leigh 68 grain at 1800fps and even more curious about the 65 grain .357sig at 2100fps. I called them and they stated those were both real velocities out of a Glock 19 and 32. I want to shoot hogs with them out of a Glock 34 9mm and Glock 35 .357sig.


If they do what I think they might do, it could be a game changer for handguns.

[WillBrink]

I have a project I wanted to get to and didn't have the time, and now when I have the time, can't get the ammo.

I am very curious about the super light Leigh 68 grain at 1800fps and even more curious about the 65 grain .357sig at 2100fps. I called them and they stated those were both real velocities out of a Glock 19 and 32. I want to shoot hogs with them out of a Glock 34 9mm and Glock 35 .357sig.


If they do what I think they might do, it could be a game changer for handguns.

I have been interested in that company and the claims etc too. Tried to purchase, put name on a waiting list.

"On paper" looks quite interesting, maybe not yet another super bullet of dubious physics defying claims. Maybe...

[Ron3]

I have a project I wanted to get to and didn't have the time, and now when I have the time, can't get the ammo.

I am very curious about the super light Leigh 68 grain at 1800fps and even more curious about the 65 grain .357sig at 2100fps. I called them and they stated those were both real velocities out of a Glock 19 and 32. I want to shoot hogs with them out of a Glock 34 9mm and Glock 35 .357sig.


If they do what I think they might do, it could be a game changer for handguns.

I chronographed the 90 gr version from Underwood from a Glock 32 I had.

5 shots averaged 1596 fps with a SD of 25 fps. Cases weren't bulged at all.

[Delta-3]

If your referring to the Lehigh Defense bullets that Underwood loads, count me as a fan. I've seen enough internet testing (take that for what you will) & through my own mediocre tests that I'm convinced they are a definite upgrade for handguns. Especially in the smaller calibers, i.e. .32 .380. In my opinion they give the deep penetration needed & due to the flutes give wound cavities at least equal to if not surpassing todays "go to" hollow points.
I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, just relating my opinion from many years as a diplomatic bodyguard, LEO & Marine.
When I step out, My M&P 9mm compact/RDS equipped or my Beretta compact are both loaded with Lehigh bullets.
I carried a .45 1911 for 25 years & drank the Kool-Aid big time but like yoni & others here, I've concluded that capacity & what you can hit fast & accurately repeatedly is how to win gunfights. For me that's a 124g 9mm.

[Ron3]

I would totally carry a .22 if it would penetrate to a reliable depth in a straight line every time. Unfortunately they just don't, especially from a shorter barrel. .32 ACP is also suspect, and even .380 has its doubts. I actually wish .30 Luger had survived to become the dominant duty cartridge over 9mm. As far as I can tell it gets the job done even more efficiently.

This is true.

Sykes and Fairbane were very familiar with fmj because that's what they dealt with Shanghai training Police to fight gangsters in the 1920's and 30's.

They reported no difference between the performance of .32 through .455 Webley that they could tell. (In its defense .455 is damn slow at 550-650 fps)

They agreed .22 and .25 were not service calibers and didnt report any further about them.

They did mention that 7.63 Mauser did better than the others due to its penetration performance of people and barriers. Since it also came in the form of a 10-shot semi auto is was the cool gun to have at the time.

They didnt care for single action pistols for defensive concealed carry citing safety but otherwise they were better combat handguns than revolvers.

However citing the importance of quick-reaction to attack they preffered revolvers for concealed self defense.

For police encounters they certainly stressed drawing and shooting quickly, accurately, and as much as you need to. Bring ammo and team mates, etc.

[Ron3]

If your referring to the Lehigh Defense bullets that Underwood loads, count me as a fan. I've seen enough internet testing (take that for what you will) & through my own mediocre tests that I'm convinced they are a definite upgrade for handguns. Especially in the smaller calibers, i.e. .32 .380. In my opinion they give the deep penetration needed & due to the flutes give wound cavities at least equal to if not surpassing todays "go to" hollow points.
I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, just relating my opinion from many years as a diplomatic bodyguard, LEO & Marine.
When I step out, My M&P 9mm compact/RDS equipped or my Beretta compact are both loaded with Lehigh bullets.
I carried a .45 1911 for 25 years & drank the Kool-Aid big time but like yoni & others here, I've concluded that capacity & what you can hit fast & accurately repeatedly is how to win gunfights. For me that's a 124g 9mm.

I actually don't buy into the Lehigh bullet flutes at all. I just see it as lightweight high velocity fmj bullets.

But if it penetrates enough with lower recoil great.

[Ron3]

I do have concerns that the .32 Beretta Cheetah I often carry shoots bullets more easily deflected off-path against various tissues of attackers be they man or beast.

But since most people who stop aggressive activity in the short term do so due to psychology and not physical damage to the body it doesn't bother me much.

More concerned about getting good hits with a small gun and sights.

[okie]

This is exactly what I have seen when gutting Deer and Wild Hogs we have shot with Pistols and Big Bore Revolvers. I totally understand what your saying but since this is Tec. I'm not gonna derail this any further. 😎

Shooting animals is probably about the best reference we have for how bullets actually behave in living tissues. Pigs especially are extremely similar to an ideal human specimen, but even deer are similar enough to be relevant. Pigs just happen to have very similar physiology to us, and the average wild hog is pretty similar dimensionally, too. In other words, if a bullet does xyz in an average sized pig, it's a pretty safe bet that it would do similar things in a well built person.

[okie]

I actually don't buy into the Lehigh bullet flutes at all. I just see it as lightweight high velocity fmj bullets.

But if it penetrates enough with lower recoil great.

I agree. There are theories that you can direct hydraulic pressure to create asymmetric cavities, but rounds like 5.7 kind of disprove it. For example, with the solid copper FMJ style bullets, the energy is only being directed in two directions and you still don't get that effect. You definitely see more of an ovular shaped temp cavity and asymmetric permanent cavity in gel, but the wounds in people are reported to be pretty much identical to any other handgun with similar energy.

Solid copper bullets do have a lot of advantages though. Barrier penetration being one. The flutes don't really reduce that, but they do limit penetration in tissue. So in that regard they're way more reliable than expanding hollow points in terms of being barrier blind while still not over penetrating in tissue. And with the lighter bullets going faster you have a slightly flatter trajectory and longer range.

[Ron3]

So...we want a 9x19 necked down to .30 cal. or a rimless, high pressure .32 S&W Long using existing and new .312 cal bullets 60-115 grs. 😁

Maybe Ruger will do it for us...

".30 Ruger Auto", ".31 Ruger Auto", or ".32 Ruger Auto".