Current Pecking Order of Pistol-Mounted Red Dot Sights?

**KTR03** · 04-07-21, 13:42

I started down this road a couple of years aback. I'm 52 so I thought I'd get going before my eyes fail and I actually need the optic. I have a couple of RMRs, and 4 Holoson 508Ts (2 gen 1 and 2 gen 2s). 509Ts are on my list.

I have the 508Ts on 3 STI/Stacatto Pistols: a C2, a 2019 P, and an XC. I could have afforded RMRs but the Holosuns are better in every measure, save country of origin. The Pro's:

1) Great Reticules. The "eotech style" is great for beginners. The ACSS reticle is even better but doesn't come in the 508 line yet. And if you don't like it, you can shut it off.
2) Titanium Construction: Hell for stout. If Sage Dynamics can't kill it, I won't.
3) Shake awake Feature: Saves batter life.
4) Color: I really like the green reticule.
5) NV: Contrary to what was stated above, I find the Holoson 508T to be excellent under Gen 3 White Phospherus Filmless PVS14. The EOTECH reticle just shows up and floats in front of your face. Very easy. Actually to me it is a lot more crisp and clear under NODS than in daylight.
6) Batter Change: the new gen doesn't require the optic to be removed to change the battery.

The 508Ts are significantly cheaper than RMRs and to me, they deliver a higher level feature set than the RMR. Lets not even talk about the Acro... and the 509T. I have a 508T on a $4000 pistol. I would have spent more on an RMR if it was better. It isn't.

Now, its Chinese. True that. I'd like it to be US. If it was, I'd gladly pay RMR money for it. But at the end of the day, the feature set drives the decision. My cell phone and laptop are chinese. It seems odd to draw an arbitrary line on pistol optics, and boldly saying "no to china" while heading over to Walmart. That ship has sailed.

**themonk** · 04-07-21, 13:58

Originally Posted by KTR03

Now, its Chinese. True that. I'd like it to be US. If it was, I'd gladly pay RMR money for it. But at the end of the day, the feature set drives the decision. My cell phone and laptop are chinese. It seems odd to be to draw an arbitrary line on pistol optics, and boldly saying "no to china" while heading over to Walmart. That ship has sailed.

Completely agree. Aimpoint and Trij need to step up. Their slow asses are going to be left behind. I love them both, especially aimpoint but they are in for a world of hurt in the next few years if they dont innovate. LPVOs are going to eat aimpoints lunch when you can get Razor Gen 2 E clarity and dot in the 15oz range. Its coming, and they better have a plan. I see nothing from them and the Acro is a joke. Sorry, needed to be said.

**themonk** · 04-07-21, 13:58

Originally Posted by KTR03

Now, its Chinese. True that. I'd like it to be US. If it was, I'd gladly pay RMR money for it. But at the end of the day, the feature set drives the decision. My cell phone and laptop are chinese. It seems odd to be to draw an arbitrary line on pistol optics, and boldly saying "no to china" while heading over to Walmart. That ship has sailed.

Completely agree. Aimpoint and Trij need to step up. Their slow asses are going to be left behind. I love them both, especially aimpoint but they are in for a world of hurt in the next few years if they dont innovate. LPVOs are going to eat aimpoints lunch when you can get Razor Gen 2 E clarity and dot in the 15oz range. Its coming, and they better have a plan. I see nothing from them and the Acro is a joke. Sorry, needed to be said.

**Warp** · 05-01-21, 12:51

Sage Dynamics was of course mentioned...I find it funny he writes off Holosun as made in China by calling out Aimpoint as being foreign. I'm not sure he understands that some people's issue with Holosun isn't that it's not-USA...the issue is that ii is China. You don't see people boycotting Razors because they are made in Japan for example.

I also find it funny how much he absolutely hates the "if I could have only 1" question. It's nice to just be able to buy the different options and then afford thousands of rounds of ammo to put through each one, but, some people can only afford one of a certain item man

Originally Posted by VIP3R 237

My brother had some Taco Bell nacho cheese drip right into the open emitter of his rm06.

Imagine if this was posted to ar15.com instead of here.

**BoringGuy45** · 05-01-21, 16:31

Originally Posted by themonk

LPVOs are going to eat aimpoints lunch when you can get Razor Gen 2 E clarity and dot in the 15oz range. Its coming, and they better have a plan. I see nothing from them and the Acro is a joke. Sorry, needed to be said.

There's still the issue of eyebox and paralax at 1x. Even with training, the difference is noticeable, and you can't shoot at the weird angles you can with a RDS. Plus, LVPOs are 2 or 3 times the cost for the same bombproof quality as found in something like an Aimpoint PRO or even a T2.

But I agree: The day is coming when those cons of LVPOs will start to fade quite a bit. Technology is always marching forward.

**Warp** · 05-01-21, 19:20

Originally Posted by BoringGuy45

There's still the issue of eyebox and paralax at 1x. Even with training, the difference is noticeable, and you can't shoot at the weird angles you can with a RDS. Plus, LVPOs are 2 or 3 times the cost for the same bombproof quality as found in something like an Aimpoint PRO or even a T2.

But I agree: The day is coming when those cons of LVPOs will start to fade quite a bit. Technology is always marching forward.

And in the meantime, Holosun is going to eliminate EOtech and Aimpoint except for the old guys with too much money who insist on country of origin even if it's more money for an inferior product.

Buying an optic is going to be like buying a television or tablet or phone or or or

Crap like having to remove and rezero your optic to change the battery (with inferior battery life to start out) isn't going to cut it.

I say as I press submit order for another RMR to put offset on a rifle whose primary optic is also made in US. Might be the final optic purchasing round that's an option I'll consider, though

**Tokarev** · 05-01-21, 21:49

Originally Posted by BoringGuy45

There's still the issue of eyebox and paralax at 1x. Even with training, the difference is noticeable, and you can't shoot at the weird angles you can with a RDS. Plus, LVPOs are 2 or 3 times the cost for the same bombproof quality as found in something like an Aimpoint PRO or even a T2.

But I agree: The day is coming when those cons of LVPOs will start to fade quite a bit. Technology is always marching forward.

Got my first firsthand look at the Razor Gen III 1-10x24 today. Surprisingly bright reticle that's actually useful at low magnification. Not as big nor bulky as it appears on the web. Seemed to have a quite forgiving eye box at the lower end too. Cost is high and the optic is not for the faint of wallet.

Anyway, this is probably the market leader in terms of size, weight, cost, brightness. There are some nice 1-6 and 1-8 LPVOs out there but few with a reticle that's probably as bright. And those that do are equal or more in price. Seems there's still some confusion with some makers who think shooters want a 6x that can be dialed down rather than a red dot that can be dialed up. But they're about to be forced to figure that out.

As other companies try to beat Vortex we should see some pretty nice scopes at better and better prices. Aimpoint isn't the only company likely to be left sucking hind tit. But at least EOTech understands that the market is changing and is working to respond with the Vudu scopes.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

**1168** · 05-02-21, 06:41

Originally Posted by Warp

And in the meantime, Holosun is going to eliminate EOtech and Aimpoint except for the old guys with too much money who insist on country of origin even if it's more money for an inferior product.

Buying an optic is going to be like buying a television or tablet or phone or or or

Crap like having to remove and rezero your optic to change the battery (with inferior battery life to start out) isn't going to cut it.

I say as I press submit order for another RMR to put offset on a rifle whose primary optic is also made in US. Might be the final optic purchasing round that's an option I'll consider, though

If changing the battery bothers you (it would annoy me), don’t forget that the dual-illuminated RMR is a thing. It has its own drawbacks, of course, but I think its a pretty awesome option. Drawbacks include a large dot that is still much smaller than the beaten zone on a pistol, and washout.

Originally Posted by Tokarev

Got my first firsthand look at the Razor Gen III 1-10x24 today. Surprisingly bright reticle that's actually useful at low magnification. Not as big nor bulky as it appears on the web. Seemed to have a quite forgiving eye box at the lower end too. Cost is high and the optic is not for the faint of wallet.

Anyway, this is probably the market leader in terms of size, weight, cost, brightness. There are some nice 1-6 and 1-8 LPVOs out there but few with a reticle that's probably as bright. And those that do are equal or more in price. Seems there's still some confusion with some makers who think shooters want a 6x that can be dialed down rather than a red dot that can be dialed up. But they're about to be forced to figure that out.

As other companies try to beat Vortex we should see some pretty nice scopes at better and better prices. Aimpoint isn't the only company likely to be left sucking hind tit. But at least EOTech understands that the market is changing and is working to respond with the Vudu scopes.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

The new Razor is very nice, but the weight isn’t ignorable if we’re also talking about dots and magnifiers.