CHF Nitride barrel?

[DG23]

Kudos! Well put and not pulling any punches. Pretty much sums it up.

I will pass on nitride, UNLESS it is a weapon not offered with a chrome lined barrel then it is better than nothing (i.e. SIG Virtus/MCX or an HK MR556 which you have to send off to get it done).

You have no barrels that do not have a chrome lining on anything?

[PappyM3]

Make no mistake, nitriding is pushed because its cheaper/easier to do and is ALMOST as good as chrome. 95% of shooters will not see a difference in chrome vs nitride with the way they shoot. For harsher firing schedules and especially in full-auto applications chrome is still king.

Almost as good as chrome... from a durability/heat standpoint. But from a precision standpoint nitriding has the edge. Yes, it’s possible to make a chrome lined barrel precise, but it’s more effort and attention during manufacturing.

From that durability standpoint, I have no skin in the game but would like to see some scientific tests with a statistically significant number of barrels tested for quantifiable measures of performance and effectiveness. So we can positively say how close nitriding is to chrome lining from a durability standpoint. That will most likely never happen though, unless the DoD considers doing the tests.

[Leonidas24]

Almost as good as chrome... from a durability/heat standpoint. But from a precision standpoint nitriding has the edge. Yes, it’s possible to make a chrome lined barrel precise, but it’s more effort and attention during manufacturing.

From that durability standpoint, I have no skin in the game but would like to see some scientific tests with a statistically significant number of barrels tested for quantifiable measures of performance and effectiveness. So we can positively say how close nitriding is to chrome lining from a durability standpoint. That will most likely never happen though, unless the DoD considers doing the tests.

It's been done.

Barrel Life: Nitride, Chrome, and a few other exotic liners discussed

edit: This test compared stellite lined 3-piece barrels to nitride and bare steel, not chrome lined barrels. There was at one point several links within the article to tests comparing chrome lined barrels and nitrided barrels; however, it seems the DOD has removed them from being viewed by the public and are no longer available. Coincidentally, it also appears that most or all of Dr. Gary Roberts' work that was available online via PDF is gone as well, including his presentations on 6.8 SPC.

[prepare]

Mike at SOLGW discusses this topic in his armorers course; according to their research including their own destructive testing of chrome lining being better than nitride is inconclusive in terms of measured performance in accuracy, heat tolerance, barrel life, and predictability of performance.

Further, I'm not convinced that what the mil uses is necessarily the best. If/when something better comes along gov institutions are notoriously extremely slow and reluctant to change.

[AndyLate]

Kudos! Well put and not pulling any punches. Pretty much sums it up.

I will pass on nitride, UNLESS it is a weapon not offered with a chrome lined barrel then it is better than nothing (i.e. SIG Virtus/MCX or an HK MR556 which you have to send off to get it done).

It is interesting that you and I interpret cb's post completely differently but we both believe the same point to be correct.

I believe nitride barrels are inferior to chrome, but both are valid choices.

Andy

[vicious_cb]

It is interesting that you and I interpret cb's post completely differently but we both believe the same point to be correct.

I believe nitride barrels are inferior to chrome, but both are valid choices.

Andy

That was done on purpose, either you are so hardcore you need the extra wear resistance or just want the peace of mind of having the most durable barrel out there so its chrome or go home.

Conversely you are just a regular guy that doesnt tend to use his AR like a light machine gun all the time where a nitrided barrel is just fine.

This is where 95% of shooters fall including me where Ive barely gone through a case of ammo in the last 6 months vs few years ago I would have only considered chrome because I was going through a case of ammo a month and couldnt be bothered to cool the barrel down between mags.

[ABNAK]

You have no barrels that do not have a chrome lining on anything?

Nope. All my modern military-style clones have chrome lined barrels.

Exceptions are Garand, Carbine, a Winnie 30.06 1895 repro, and .357 lever gun. Stuff made that way. I must say that Fulton Armory has a chrome lined barrel option for their Carbine and it is interesting but they've got a 4+ month wait.

[ABNAK]

It is interesting that you and I interpret cb's post completely differently but we both believe the same point to be correct.

I believe nitride barrels are inferior to chrome, but both are valid choices.

Andy

That's pretty much what I was driving at with my last sentence: I'd prefer chrome lining, but I'd take nitride over nothing. If a barrel can be had with chrome lining (like an AR barrel for instance) I have no desire to buy a nitrided version of that same barrel.

Chrome > nitride > untreated/unlined.

[ABNAK]

That was done on purpose, either you are so hardcore you need the extra wear resistance or just want the peace of mind of having the most durable barrel out there so its chrome or go home.

Conversely you are just a regular guy that doesnt tend to use his AR like a light machine gun all the time where a nitrided barrel is just fine.

This is where 95% of shooters fall including me where Ive barely gone through a case of ammo in the last 6 months vs few years ago I would have only considered chrome because I was going through a case of ammo a month and couldnt be bothered to cool the barrel down between mags.

Pretty much my reasoning. I'm not storming an NVA bunker line in the jungle, shooting at Muj on a distant hillside, or hitting the beach at Normandy. If I can spend a little more $$$ to know I've got a top-quality piece of kit then I have no problem doing so, and in fact prefer to do so.

To others: YMMV. It's a free country, buy what you want! Choice is a good thing.

[turnburglar]

Whats so funny is that if you ask the forums for barrel advice; you get this institutional dogma of an answer. "CHF chrome line or its bunk"



I was talking to a gun builder recently that is looking to get barrels rolled for him by a really good barrel manufacturer. He said he sat down with the manufacturer and asked like every single question about making barrels that he could think of. The two biggest take aways was that:

"CHF has a tremendous initial investment; but once the machine is rolling, barrels are much easier to make. THERE IS NOTHING ABOUT THE PROCESS THAT MAKES A BETTER BARREL. PERIOD."

and that...

"Chrome is a much more imperfect process that is likely to leave cracks and blemishes in the bore. Chrome doesn't even win on a full auto gun either. Not even at environmental resistance. Chrome has zero actual advantages to a nitride barrel. None."


In my own experience my nitride barrels are incredible shooters. I'm not throwing out my CHF chrome tubes; I just don't think they are "top kit" anymore.