Chauvin Trial Commentary

[MWAG19919]

First of all, the medical examiner never stated that Floyd died as a result of Fentanyl. It only mentioned the presence of the drug in his system, along with methamphetamine and cannabis. The death was ruled a homicide by the ME, who explicitly refused to state that Fentanyl caused Floyd's death. I watched the bodycam footage of Officer Thomas Lane (below) and I never saw Floyd swallow anything, which I believe members claimed to see several pages back.



https://www.npr.org/sections/live-up...or-coronavirus
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/ne...em/ar-BB18pb0p

Second, I keep seeing members post that the neck kneel was necessary due to Floyd's noncompliance and physical size. That might've been true for the first minute or two, but not the remaining 7 minutes. Chauvin may have been smaller than Floyd, but he was in no way struggling to subdue Floyd for the majority of the time he had his knee on Floyd's neck. He looked pretty relaxed with his hands in his pockets. Hell, he's not even breathing heavily. In fact, judging by the shit-eating sneer on his face, he's enjoying it. While that alone isn't criminal, the casual nature of the neck kneel absolutely kills the argument that it was necessary due to Floyd's size or behavior at the time. And the weak argument collapses completely as Floyd becomes unresponsive. Yet Chauvin and the other officers refused to relent, roll him to his side to aid in breathing, or even check his pulse.

Just wondering, how does a 3 minute drill apply when you have 4 versus 1, and the 1 is in handcuffs already?

My take is that Chauvin murdered the guy. I've heard in the aftermath of this incident as well as Eric Garner that if you can talk you can breathe, but that's a half truth at best. The fact is that you can restrict someone's airway for several minutes and they're going to become unconscious even if they can talk at first. If I smother someone with a pillow they can yell for help at first, but it's still murder.

The testimony of the Lt should remove all doubt that Chauvin's behavior was unnecessary force. Y'all gonna argue that the Lt is placating the mob too?

[Firefly]

Yes. Because every Lieutenant wants to be a Major.

He gave a lot of opinion. Cited policy as a generality.

You realize that none of the people who are pulling the “He’s dead, Jim” are in a legal position to declare people dead. You do know that right?

Surely you aren’t just claiming the officer “murdered” Floyd just to virtue signal or because it feels better.

[flenna]

My take is that Chauvin murdered the guy. I've heard in the aftermath of this incident as well as Eric Garner that if you can talk you can breathe, but that's a half truth at best. The fact is that you can restrict someone's airway for several minutes and they're going to become unconscious even if they can talk at first. If I smother someone with a pillow they can yell for help at first, but it's still murder.

The testimony of the Lt should remove all doubt that Chauvin's behavior was unnecessary force. Y'all gonna argue that the Lt is placating the mob too?

So, I assume you do not know the legal definition of the word "murder"?

[just a scout]

I thought they did at one point. I think there should be a three strikes you're out rule on that one. ER doc I know said he revives a handful of the same people almost weekly.

My record is the same dude four times in one shift. If you don’t carry your own Narcan when you’re a junkie, that should be your problem.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[ChattanoogaPhil]

I'm a little confused by the Lt's testimony. Maybe some of it is missing? Does he testify that Chauvin's actions were outside of policy and also did he testify that Chauvin's actions were actually excessive force even though he wasn't striking Floyd but passively restraining him with no actual physical damage? It really sounded like he was testifying he just didn't like what he saw, but is that the same as stating for fact that Chauvin broke the law? Not sure I worded this correctly.

Lt. Zimmerman's testimony is over an hour which is too much to chronicle here but for purposes of this thread discussion I think it's fair to say that his testimony is contrary to those defending or otherwise attempting to rationalize knee on the neck use of force against Floyd. Particularly noteworthy was his testimony that a knee on the neck is "deadly force". "If your knee is on a person's neck it can kill them". Repeatedly stated that the use of force against Floyd was "totally unnecessary" "uncalled for" and "no reason".

Lt. Zimmerman's testimony begins at the 47min mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOY81-m70gA

[WillBrink]

First of all, the medical examiner never stated that Floyd died as a result of Fentanyl. It only mentioned the presence of the drug in his system, along with methamphetamine and cannabis. The death was ruled a homicide by the ME, who explicitly refused to state that Fentanyl caused Floyd's death.

Independent team:

"In an updated report filed two months later, Baker confirmed he had found traces of fentanyl—an opioid used as recreational drug—in Floyd's system, but stated that could not be identified as the cause of death.

According to the documents, Floyd had 11 ng/mL of fentanyl in his blood, a dose that could have been justified an overdose verdict had his death occurred in different circumstances.

Floyd was also found to have a "heavy heart" and "at least one artery was approximately 75 percent blocked."

Chauvin's defense is likely to focus on both elements of the report.

Baker told investigators that: "If he [Floyd] were found dead at home alone and no other apparent causes, this could be acceptable to call an OD [overdose]. Deaths have been certified with levels of 3. [...] That is a fatal level of fentanyl under normal circumstances."

However, Baker also stated there was no proof the fentanyl had killed Floyd. "I am not saying this killed him," he added."

So, while he could not identify as the cause of death, it could not be ruled out. What seems obvious is, like many things, not simple and multi factorial. He died as a combination of his pre existing heart disease, drugs, and "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression"

I suspect Chauvin's actions ultimately contributed to the death. Murder? Nope. Involuntary Manslaughter, maybe, depending on case law, SOP, state law, and how good a job the defense and prosecution does.

He's charged with "second-degree unintentional murder and third-degree murder. He also faces a lesser charge of second-degree manslaughter."

I'm assuming in that state second-degree manslaughter is Involuntary Manslaughter, and that's the only charge I see sticking.

[1168]

My record is the same dude four times in one shift. If you don’t carry your own Narcan when you’re a junkie, that should be your problem.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

And fat people need to carry their own defibrillators.

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Never know what a jury will do but third-degree murder doesn't seem like too much of a stretch at this point in the trial. According to the below third-degree doesn't require intent to kill or even intent to harm, just need to show that Chauvin had no regard for Floyd's life. The video and testimony so far seems to point in that direction.

-----------

When Hennepin County District Court Judge Peter Cahill reinstated the third-degree murder charge for Derek Chauvin on March 11, the trial landscape shifted in favor of the prosecution. A third-degree charge doesn’t require “intent to effect the death of any person,” or even an “intent to inflict bodily harm,” just an “evincing of a depraved mind, without regard for human life.”

https://news.bloomberglaw.com/bankin...-trial-outcome

[utahjeepr]

I'm not saying Chauvin is an angel, my (non LEO, armchair only) opinion is he should have exercised more care. But the truth is he's going to go down, unfairly IMO, for this. He's being staked out as a sacrifice to the lions.

He's guilty of bad optics and being too cavalier at the least, and some level of negligence, potentially criminal, at the worst. We can debate his behavior, but the guy in that video did not look like a man intent on murder. Nor did he look like a man who thought he was doing harm.

His ass will be thrown into the volcano in hopes of calming the eruption. Not gonna work. Riots and burning are in the air. In protest, or in celebration Minneapolis is gonna be a shitshow. F it. Not my F'ing town, not my F'ing problem. I give zero s#!ts if they burn it all.

What I do give a s#!t about is that anyone could be the next sacrifice. At this point the politicos will sacrifice anyone and anything.

[gunnerblue]

First of all, the medical examiner never stated that Floyd died as a result of Fentanyl. It only mentioned the presence of the drug in his system, along with methamphetamine and cannabis. The death was ruled a homicide by the ME, who explicitly refused to state that Fentanyl caused Floyd's death. I watched the bodycam footage of Officer Thomas Lane (below) and I never saw Floyd swallow anything, which I believe members claimed to see several pages back.



https://www.npr.org/sections/live-up...or-coronavirus
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/ne...em/ar-BB18pb0p

Second, I keep seeing members post that the neck kneel was necessary due to Floyd's noncompliance and physical size. That might've been true for the first minute or two, but not the remaining 7 minutes. Chauvin may have been smaller than Floyd, but he was in no way struggling to subdue Floyd for the majority of the time he had his knee on Floyd's neck. He looked pretty relaxed with his hands in his pockets. Hell, he's not even breathing heavily. In fact, judging by the shit-eating sneer on his face, he's enjoying it. While that alone isn't criminal, the casual nature of the neck kneel absolutely kills the argument that it was necessary due to Floyd's size or behavior at the time. And the weak argument collapses completely as Floyd becomes unresponsive. Yet Chauvin and the other officers refused to relent, roll him to his side to aid in breathing, or even check his pulse.

Just wondering, how does a 3 minute drill apply when you have 4 versus 1, and the 1 is in handcuffs already?

My take is that Chauvin murdered the guy. I've heard in the aftermath of this incident as well as Eric Garner that if you can talk you can breathe, but that's a half truth at best. The fact is that you can restrict someone's airway for several minutes and they're going to become unconscious even if they can talk at first. If I smother someone with a pillow they can yell for help at first, but it's still murder.

The testimony of the Lt should remove all doubt that Chauvin's behavior was unnecessary force. Y'all gonna argue that the Lt is placating the mob too?

Police admin not standing up for the troopship?! I’m shocked..

Their job is protect the dept, he’s not placating the mob he’s trying to get promoted.