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Thread: Recommendations for armor rated for SS109 M855 green tip...

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naphtali View Post
    I've spent ~20 days training under 8 or 9 of them as instructors,.
    Weird flex, but OK.

    The reason I changed my post to “I might be wrong” or however I said that, is that I failed to consider that not everyone with a need, real or perceived, to wear body armor has the opportunity or dedication to wear it often enough for it to become a non-issue. Or the body type of a professional doorkicker. So, yeah, in that way, I am wrong. Know your audience, and all that. After our discussion the other day, I asked someone else for a sanity check, and got some illumination on the issue. For example, there is a particular buttstock that I have found to snag on my gear more often than others. I forgot about that. So I changed the attitude of my post.

    With that said, you’ll notice I did not correct the post above it, because it is still true. If the difference in being able to fight effectively or not is 1” vs 1/2”, the problem isn’t the brand of plate, its the wearer. Sure, what you said above is mostly true, and thinner is nice. So I get plenty of exercise. I’m sure there is a line somewhere where plate thickness becomes a distinct problem for shooting, specifically.

    Be safe, don’t get shot, and wear your gear often.
    RLTW

    Former Action Guy
    Disclosure: I am affiliated PRN with a tactical training center, but I speak only for myself. I have no idea what we sell, other than CLP and training. I receive no income from sale of hard goods.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1168 View Post
    Weird flex, but OK.
    Not a "flex." The number of different Tier 1 folks I've had as course instructors, and how much time I spent with them, is very relevant based on what I was claiming. Your "you must hang out with Tier 1 guys" comment was sarcastic and implied I was making my post up. That's the data to the contrary.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1168 View Post
    If the difference in being able to fight effectively or not is 1” vs 1/2”, the problem isn’t the brand of plate, its the wearer.
    I couldn't disagree more. It is a matter of opinion though, but every person I've met who wears them for a living wants thinner and lighter, so long as the ballistic / NIJ rating meets or exceeds their minimum.
    Last edited by Naphtali; 07-23-21 at 13:10.

  3. #53
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    Nevermind. You guys have a nice weekend.
    Last edited by 1168; 07-23-21 at 15:47.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naphtali View Post
    Not a "flex." The number of different Tier 1 folks I've had as course instructors, and how much time I spent with them, is very relevant based on what I was claiming. Your "you must hang out with Tier 1 guys" comment was sarcastic and implied I was making my post up. That's the data to the contrary.



    I couldn't disagree more. It is a matter of opinion though, but every person I've met who wears them for a living wants thinner and lighter, so long as the ballistic / NIJ rating meets or exceeds their minimum.
    Show DD214 or shut the **** up.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eurodriver View Post
    Show DD214 or shut the **** up.
    The real question is, did you go running in your armor today?

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by vicious_cb View Post
    The real question is, did you go running in your armor today?
    Night before last. I wore the lightweight JPC setup, so there’s that. I also ruck with it weekly.

    I think what our Marine friend is trying to get at is 20 cumulative days of contact with professionals is at the low end of the armor experience spectrum for some people in this thread. Doesn’t mean that this experience is invalid, just that a nicer set of clubs won’t make him Tiger. And arguing with a dude that shoots in armor for a living is the sort of thing that is making M4CPAP slowly die.

    I appreciate Naphthali’s point of view, and thinner, lighter armor is nice. But not being able to fight because of the 1/2” thickness difference between say, SAPIs and Hescos would be hella embarrassing. Doesn’t matter how well worded or well researched the excuse is, or how many retired “operators” (notice I used that word, not the phrase Naphthali keeps quoting) have helped you develop that excuse. Now, add a big ass Mystery Ranch and a long distance foot movement, and I’ll give a shit about plate thickness. Hence why I gave the JPC/Hesco advice alongside the “not being able to shoot in armor is like not being able to shoot with tits” advice.

    If you don’t train in it, routinely, none of this matters.
    RLTW

    Former Action Guy
    Disclosure: I am affiliated PRN with a tactical training center, but I speak only for myself. I have no idea what we sell, other than CLP and training. I receive no income from sale of hard goods.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1168 View Post
    Night before last. I wore the lightweight JPC setup, so there’s that. I also ruck with it weekly.

    I think what our Marine friend is trying to get at is 20 cumulative days of contact with professionals is at the low end of the armor experience spectrum for some people in this thread. Doesn’t mean that this experience is invalid, just that a nicer set of clubs won’t make him Tiger. And arguing with a dude that shoots in armor for a living is the sort of thing that is making M4CPAP slowly die.

    I appreciate Naphthali’s point of view, and thinner, lighter armor is nice. But not being able to fight because of the 1/2” thickness difference between say, SAPIs and Hescos would be hella embarrassing. Doesn’t matter how well worded or well researched the excuse is, or how many retired “operators” (notice I used that word, not the phrase Naphthali keeps quoting) have helped you develop that excuse. Now, add a big ass Mystery Ranch and a long distance foot movement, and I’ll give a shit about plate thickness. Hence why I gave the JPC/Hesco advice alongside the “not being able to shoot in armor is like not being able to shoot with tits” advice.

    If you don’t train in it, routinely, none of this matters.
    Exactly what I was getting at. Even just excluding shooting in armor, spending a weekend or two in armor every few months does nothing prepare someone for a sustained fight in armor. And not just the weight of the plates themselves but the cummerbund acting like a resistance band for your accessory breathing muscles means people will gas out sooner than they think. Throw that on top of most people having poor conditioning means all these dudes with a plate carrier stashed in their closets for "just in case SHTF" means that armor becomes more of a liability when they can't get behind cover fast enough or when they can't hit anything because they got the shakes from exhaustion from the exertion of moving in their kit.
    Last edited by vicious_cb; 08-12-21 at 22:40.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by vicious_cb View Post
    Exactly what I was getting at. Even just excluding shooting in armor, spending a weekend or two in armor every few months does nothing prepare someone for a sustained fight in armor. And not just the weight of the plates themselves but the cummerbund acting like a resistance band for your accessory breathing muscles means people will gas out sooner than they think. Throw that on top of most people having poor conditioning means all these dudes with a plate carrier stashed in their closets for "just in case SHTF" means that armor becomes more of a liability when they can't get behind cover fast enough or when they can't hit anything because they got the shakes from exhaustion from the exertion of moving in their kit.
    Bottom line: If you have never had to wash your PC you either don't train in it enough or you are a rank ass stinky mofo.
    Go Ukraine! Piss on the Russian dead.

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