Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 58

Thread: Recommendations for armor rated for SS109 M855 green tip...

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Posts
    74
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by ABNAK View Post
    What is the lightest, quality, and "comfortable" plates to stop 30.06 AP ("black tip")? I guess that is roughly, what, Level IV or ESAPI resistance?

    Don't want to say that cost is not an object, but performance would be my key concern.
    How often are you going to wear them?

  2. #22
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    1,662
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by ABNAK View Post
    What is the lightest, quality, and "comfortable" plates to stop 30.06 AP ("black tip")? I guess that is roughly, what, Level IV or ESAPI resistance?

    Don't want to say that cost is not an object, but performance would be my key concern.
    Are you only concerned with stopping M2AP? Do you only care to stop a single round of it, this is all that's needed to qualify for NIJ 0101.06 Level IV, as it is not a multi-hit rating?

    What makes a plate comfortable? Are you specifically speaking about the shoulder cuts, i.e., SAPI-cut vs. shooter/swimmer? Triple curve is absolutely going to be needed.

    Do you need standalone? Or are you comfortable with IC?

    Why the need to defeat M2AP? Is that a specific threat that you anticipate being faced with enough that you are willing to give up a noticeable bit of mobility and endurance?
    Last edited by Defaultmp3; 04-01-21 at 22:34.
    Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

    老僧三十年前未參禪時、見山是山、見水是水、及至後夾親見知識、有箇入處、見山不是山、見水不是水、而今得箇體歇處、依然見山秪是山、見水秪是水。

    https://www.instagram.com/defaultmp3/

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    11,718
    Feedback Score
    0
    M2AP because the next step up is .300 WinMag, and I'm not too concerned about that. I'm also not concerned with street thugs and their gats with shitty ammo, and I'll just leave it at that. Let's just say that I'm adamantly opposed to body armor bans because I don't believe you are required to be shootable by the King's men.

    "Comfortable" (or should I say least uncomfortable) is an oxymoron with body armor, but the lightest weight and best-fitting plates to allow movement is what I'm asking about.
    11C2P '83-'87
    Airborne Infantry
    F**k China!

  4. #24
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    1,662
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by ABNAK View Post
    M2AP because the next step up is .300 WinMag, and I'm not too concerned about that. I'm also not concerned with street thugs and their gats with shitty ammo, and I'll just leave it at that. Let's just say that I'm adamantly opposed to body armor bans because I don't believe you are required to be shootable by the King's men.

    "Comfortable" (or should I say least uncomfortable) is an oxymoron with body armor, but the lightest weight and best-fitting plates to allow movement is what I'm asking about.
    The problem is that there's a big jump in difference between even the lightest and thinnest of the Level IV plates (probably the Hesco 4800) and quality special threat plates (Hesco U210s or TenCate CR-6450SA), usually doubling the thickness and at least 1 lb more per plate. As for the threat assessment, the question becomes, who even uses M2AP? There are plenty of special threats plates like the U210s or 6450s that can defeat M855A1, while things like Gold Dot or XM556FBIT3 are most likely not difficult to defeat, and can probably be handled by most plates marked Level III or III+. On the other hand, I have my doubts that Level IV would do well against M993 or M995, let alone XM1158; M2AP is a very outdated round. M80A1 might do okay, but that's probably the only round I would hazard a guess that a Level IV would provide any meaningful threat defeat that your high spec special threat plates (and even then, it's really just a SWAG from me); that being said, AFAIK, M80A1 is really only used in machine guns currently, so if you're taking those kinds of rounds, you're probably extra ****ed to begin with and having Level IV rather than a special threat plate probably isn't going to make any meaningful difference.

    That's why I think it's pretty dumb to chase Level IV as a civilian that has a much lower threat exposure, as I would imagine the use case to be much closer to something like direct action or self defense, where mobility is key. If you want Level IVs just because, go for it. But if you're being pragmatic at all, I don't see the point as a civilian, given the possible range of threats.
    Last edited by Defaultmp3; 04-02-21 at 11:51.
    Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

    老僧三十年前未參禪時、見山是山、見水是水、及至後夾親見知識、有箇入處、見山不是山、見水不是水、而今得箇體歇處、依然見山秪是山、見水秪是水。

    https://www.instagram.com/defaultmp3/

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    500
    Feedback Score
    5 (100%)
    Thanks for starting this thread. Good info.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    11,718
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Defaultmp3 View Post
    That's why I think it's pretty dumb to chase Level IV as a civilian that has a much lower threat exposure, as I would imagine the use case to be much closer to something like direct action or self defense, where mobility is key. If you want Level IVs just because, go for it. But if you're being pragmatic at all, I don't see the point as a civilian, given the possible range of threats.
    The "possible range of threats" involves those acting under the color of authority. M993 and M995 are not common at all, even to those wearing a uniform. I asked some active duty guys about them some time ago and they were like "Huh?" Granted, these weren't HRT or CAG, so there's that. And yes, I'd agree even Level IV won't stop them. Hell, even the old 7.62 SLAP is like hen's teeth.

    So let's say stopping all 7.62 NATO and all 5.56 (with the exceptions of above-mentioned M993, M995, and M80A1......but not M855A1, that needs to be stoppable). Maybe that helps narrow the definition.
    11C2P '83-'87
    Airborne Infantry
    F**k China!

  7. #27
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    1,662
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by ABNAK View Post
    The "possible range of threats" involves those acting under the color of authority. M993 and M995 are not common at all, even to those wearing a uniform. I asked some active duty guys about them some time ago and they were like "Huh?" Granted, these weren't HRT or CAG, so there's that. And yes, I'd agree even Level IV won't stop them. Hell, even the old 7.62 SLAP is like hen's teeth.

    So let's say stopping all 7.62 NATO and all 5.56 (with the exceptions of above-mentioned M993, M995, and M80A1......but not M855A1, that needs to be stoppable). Maybe that helps narrow the definition.
    Right, that was my point, that your typical civilian concerns would not involve anything that would require Level IV, as any realistic chance of meeting AP type rounds would mean you're fighting a military and for whatever reason they've loaded up AP, which is a solution I find quite ludicrous, even in the wildest 3%er dream. That, or you're fighting fudds that have decided to bust out their old black tip rounds (or memesters that bought it for the Hell of it).

    Most of the special threat plates will not take .308 Win well; I believe that most will stop penetration, but BFD will exceed NIJ standards. Defeating M855A1, the aforementioned Hesco U210 and TenCate CR-6450SA are the hot ticket. The Velocity Systems API-BZ claims to be able to stop a single round of M80, along with the regular threats that the U210 and 6450 can, but I'm a bit suspect on that, as it was my understanding that it's just a rebranded 6450, so not sure how that's done. Lot of good plates that's rate for most common .308 Win and .223 Rem, but due to the nature of threat testing, most of them aren't going to be rated for M855A1; you're likely going to have to pick either guaranteed M855A1 threat defeat or else guaranteed M80 threat defeat (the latter being an integral part of Level III testing, which requires defeating 6 rounds of M80). You could pick a special threat plate that defeats M855A1 and throw on some soft armor under to mitigate BFD, I guess? Or look for hybrid Level III plates that utilize a ceramic strike face, which is likely what's going to be needed to defeat M855A1 (but would be a SWAG at best still).

    I suppose the Hesco 4800LV would be the way to go, with your specific criteria. Still overkill, IMO, but you do you.
    Last edited by Defaultmp3; 04-02-21 at 14:14.
    Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

    老僧三十年前未參禪時、見山是山、見水是水、及至後夾親見知識、有箇入處、見山不是山、見水不是水、而今得箇體歇處、依然見山秪是山、見水秪是水。

    https://www.instagram.com/defaultmp3/

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    11,718
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Defaultmp3 View Post
    Right, that was my point, that your typical civilian concerns would not involve anything that would require Level IV, as any realistic chance of meeting AP type rounds would mean you're fighting a military and for whatever reason they've loaded up AP, which is a solution I find quite ludicrous, even in the wildest 3%er dream. That, or you're fighting fudds that have decided to bust out their old black tip rounds (or memesters that bought it for the Hell of it).

    Most of the special threat plates will not take .308 Win well; I believe that most will stop penetration, but BFD will exceed NIJ standards. Defeating M855A1, the aforementioned Hesco U210 and TenCate CR-6450SA are the hot ticket. The Velocity Systems API-BZ claims to be able to stop a single round of M80, along with the regular threats that the U210 and 6450 can, but I'm a bit suspect on that, as it was my understanding that it's just a rebranded 6450, so not sure how that's done. Lot of good plates that's rate for most common .308 Win and .223 Rem, but due to the nature of threat testing, most of them aren't going to be rated for M855A1; you're likely going to have to pick either guaranteed M855A1 threat defeat or else guaranteed M80 threat defeat (the latter being an integral part of Level III testing, which requires defeating 6 rounds of M80). You could pick a special threat plate that defeats M855A1 and throw on some soft armor under to mitigate BFD, I guess? Or look for hybrid Level III plates that utilize a ceramic strike face, which is likely what's going to be needed to defeat M855A1 (but would be a SWAG at best still).

    I suppose the Hesco 4800LV would be the way to go, with your specific criteria. Still overkill, IMO, but you do you.
    Thanks for the insight. I will explore that suggestion.

    Yikes! Just looked and we're talking $1100-1200 per plate. Jeesh......
    Last edited by ABNAK; 04-02-21 at 14:33.
    11C2P '83-'87
    Airborne Infantry
    F**k China!

  9. #29
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    1,662
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by ABNAK View Post
    Thanks for the insight. I will explore that suggestion.

    Yikes! Just looked and we're talking $1100-1200 per plate. Jeesh......
    Yep, but that's the way it's gonna be if you want guaranteed M855A1 defeat paired with M80 defeat, while having something reasonably thin, lightweight, and triple curve.

    If you're willing to just apply general rules of thumbs to guess what'll defeat M855A1, a hybrid Level III/III+ plate would be a best guess, as the ceramic strike face is reasonably likely to defeat M855A1, and figure out how much you're willing to pay for how thin/light the plate is. However, those will generally be thicker than the special threat plates designed to defeat M855A1 and ignore M80, as that extra thickness/material is what handles the BFD created by M80's larger kinetic energy (or at least that's my SWAG). So, again, you'll have to balance mobility versus threat defeat, and I personally will always go for mobility.
    Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

    老僧三十年前未參禪時、見山是山、見水是水、及至後夾親見知識、有箇入處、見山不是山、見水不是水、而今得箇體歇處、依然見山秪是山、見水秪是水。

    https://www.instagram.com/defaultmp3/

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Posts
    74
    Feedback Score
    0
    Honestly for most people that are only going to have these things for a wrol/shtf situation, the RMA level IV plates are hard to beat.

    I like the “buy nvg first” suggestion that was posted earlier in this thread and would say thats sage advice

    I just got an email that RMA is going to release a multi curve level IV plate that weighs 8.2# for $159 each.

    I think my set of their single curve 1155s will be spares soon. Not the lightest and the hesco special threats will honestly be a better plate that will give adequate protection. Buy what your budget allows I really dont care how you spend your money.

    Also If you dont have a fresh ifak as in the shit isnt out of date by 10 years and has atleast 2 staged ready to deploy TQs, 2- israeli bandages, 2 chest seals, duct tape and some bleed stop gauze, add a few pairs of latex gloves (not black) and a blood type patch on the outside or your blood type written on it with permanent marker you need that first.

Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •