Darian Jarrott killing (graphic)

[SteyrAUG]

Poor officer safety got this young man killed. He should have NEVER had this man out of the car without cover, and the moment a door opened he should've had his gun drawn and been issuing commands. Awful to watch, especially because it was preventable. May we all learn from his death and live longer for it.

Honestly, I think most competent shooters, if they were inclined, could probably get the drop on most LEOs in a straight up, no warning ambush like the above. LEOs are not on 24 hour "ready alert" to engage in gunfights. You can't live like that and if you tried, there would be an astonishing number of unsupported shootings by law enforcement because most people who make regular contact with law enforcement are just f'ing stupid and do stupid shit all the time, only realization that many people are just f'ing stupid and a basic level of restraint keeps hundreds of people (who aren't criminally dangerous) from being killed by police every year.

And it's a hard goddamn balance. Too much and your career is over and you are facing charges, fines and jail time and too little and you are attending your own funeral. This wasn't a case like the GA cop who made so many errors it was cringe worthy, this was a guy who knew probably 5 seconds into the contact that he was gonna execute this cop and did almost nothing to tip his hand.

I would probably bet the first thing on Jarrotts mind is "he's gonna run."

[thepatriot2705]

Poor officer safety got this young man killed. He should have NEVER had this man out of the car without cover, and the moment a door opened he should've had his gun drawn and been issuing commands. Awful to watch, especially because it was preventable. May we all learn from his death and live longer for it.

Not disagreeing but I’m pinning this on the feds. They were 30 seconds out. Really smells like a setup. Feds are incompetent bastards

[TBAR_94]

Much respect to the fallen.

I have a lot of respect for cops because they really seem to have the odds stacked against them.

[jsbhike]

Not disagreeing but I’m pinning this on the feds. They were 30 seconds out. Really smells like a setup. Feds are incompetent bastards

Incompetent people don't win almost everytime.

[LowSpeed_HighDrag]

Honestly, I think most competent shooters, if they were inclined, could probably get the drop on most LEOs in a straight up, no warning ambush like the above. LEOs are not on 24 hour "ready alert" to engage in gunfights. You can't live like that and if you tried, there would be an astonishing number of unsupported shootings by law enforcement because most people who make regular contact with law enforcement are just f'ing stupid and do stupid shit all the time, only realization that many people are just f'ing stupid and a basic level of restraint keeps hundreds of people (who aren't criminally dangerous) from being killed by police every year.

And it's a hard goddamn balance. Too much and your career is over and you are facing charges, fines and jail time and too little and you are attending your own funeral. This wasn't a case like the GA cop who made so many errors it was cringe worthy, this was a guy who knew probably 5 seconds into the contact that he was gonna execute this cop and did almost nothing to tip his hand.

I would probably bet the first thing on Jarrotts mind is "he's gonna run."

Yes, and no. You mitigate certain risks, place yourself in positions of advantage, and control what you control. This officer did none of those things. He died because he did not practice basic officer safety on traffic stops. There were so many points that the risks could have been mitigated, but never eliminated.

I've been doing this job long enough to recognize that if anybody wanted to kill me, all it would take is creativity or chance. I control what I can control to mitigate those chances, but every door I've ever breached could have easily had an AK on the other end of it. You have to treat every traffic stop like it could be this one, but that doesn't mean you can't be polite, kind, and respectful.

[LowSpeed_HighDrag]

Not disagreeing but I’m pinning this on the feds. They were 30 seconds out. Really smells like a setup. Feds are incompetent bastards

I just can't figure out why he didn't wait for cover to get the guy out of the car.

[SteyrAUG]

Yes, and no. You mitigate certain risks, place yourself in positions of advantage, and control what you control. This officer did none of those things. He died because he did not practice basic officer safety on traffic stops. There were so many points that the risks could have been mitigated, but never eliminated.

I've been doing this job long enough to recognize that if anybody wanted to kill me, all it would take is creativity or chance. I control what I can control to mitigate those chances, but every door I've ever breached could have easily had an AK on the other end of it. You have to treat every traffic stop like it could be this one, but that doesn't mean you can't be polite, kind, and respectful.

Here's the thing, let's say YOU pull ME over and I've got a SIG on my hip and what looks exactly like a M4 on the seat next to me only it's actually an airsoft because I was running indoor drills in my friends basement.

Are you gonna go Defcon 2 on me? I haven't done anything wrong yet, but from your perspective I'm probably pinging everything hard. But if you draw on me, I'm going to be very upset and you'll probably hear a lot about it later.

Like I said, it's a hard goddamn balance and even you acknowledge if somebody wants to they can set up on you in ways where you realistically don't have a chance. Maybe there were things Jarrott could have done differently that might have changed things but that's maybe's and might's and he still might have ended up dead.

I didn't see any big "OMG that's just wrong" things, I didn't see anything that struck me as "he's gonna get himself killed doing it like that", I mostly just saw a guy who wasn't given enough information and wasn't given much of a chance.

The fact that "the Feds" apparently directed him to do a "ordinary stop" already put him at a mental disadvantage because they clearly didn't indicate that he should exercise any kind of additional caution.

[Firefly]

Yes, and no. You mitigate certain risks, place yourself in positions of advantage, and control what you control. This officer did none of those things. He died because he did not practice basic officer safety on traffic stops. There were so many points that the risks could have been mitigated, but never eliminated.

I've been doing this job long enough to recognize that if anybody wanted to kill me, all it would take is creativity or chance. I control what I can control to mitigate those chances, but every door I've ever breached could have easily had an AK on the other end of it. You have to treat every traffic stop like it could be this one, but that doesn't mean you can't be polite, kind, and respectful.

You say that. But you can do absolutely everything right and still die.

I suppose that’s why I never really look forward to the future very much.

Cancer, Coronary, Crash, or Capped. I’m sure at least one of these will happen to me eventually on a long enough timeline.

My greatest fear is actually living to be elderly. I don’t think I would survive it

[Firefly]

Here's the thing, let's say YOU pull ME over and I've got a SIG on my hip and what looks exactly like a M4 on the seat next to me only it's actually an airsoft because I was running indoor drills in my friends basement.

Are you gonna go Defcon 2

If I don’t kill your ass, then you’ll eventually get over it if I shove a gun in your face and advise you to cooperate like yer life depended on it.

But your scenario is a word problem that could be perpetually “What if’d” and caveated.

The Trooper knew he was in over his head but was bullshitted like most State Troopers into not knowing when to roll off so he stuck to his little dialogue tree and ritual.

You gotta be able to see, hear, vibe, smell, and just feel a stop. I stopped a dude years ago coming back from a machine gun shoot with all kindsa UZIs, Stens, and he was wearing Camo. We nerded out for a spell and I cur him loose. He had enough hardware and ammo to raid Saipan. But he had a good aura.

Then there was this one guy with some hidden mouse gun who just gave me a vibe. Warrants, dope, the whole nine.

It’s the Second Sight. Like what they call Samadhi. You cannot learn it nor teach it.

Ol buddy didn’t have it and he got killed

Honestly if anybody hears my words, if you catch a vibe you cannot explain and have no immediate back up; just let them go or just leave and drive off.
You actually can do that

[LowSpeed_HighDrag]

Here's the thing, let's say YOU pull ME over and I've got a SIG on my hip and what looks exactly like a M4 on the seat next to me only it's actually an airsoft because I was running indoor drills in my friends basement.

Are you gonna go Defcon 2 on me? I haven't done anything wrong yet, but from your perspective I'm probably pinging everything hard. But if you draw on me, I'm going to be very upset and you'll probably hear a lot about it later.

Like I said, it's a hard goddamn balance and even you acknowledge if somebody wants to they can set up on you in ways where you realistically don't have a chance. Maybe there were things Jarrott could have done differently that might have changed things but that's maybe's and might's and he still might have ended up dead.

I didn't see any big "OMG that's just wrong" things, I didn't see anything that struck me as "he's gonna get himself killed doing it like that", I mostly just saw a guy who wasn't given enough information and wasn't given much of a chance.

The fact that "the Feds" apparently directed him to do a "ordinary stop" already put him at a mental disadvantage because they clearly didn't indicate that he should exercise any kind of additional caution.

Of course my awareness would be extremely heightened if I pulled you over and you had a pistol and rifle. I will do what I can to mitigate risk without being unprofessional. So, I'll likely stay behind the pillars, I may call for a cover car, and I'll ask that you don't touch your guns. I'll talk to you in a nice conversational tone and I'll show you respect, but I will also be mentally prepared for the possibility that you may want to grab one of those guns. But, I won't show. Now, if you started to exhibit aggression, intoxication, or made furtive movements, I'd wait til a cover officer arrived and then ask you to step out the car until the stop ended. Obvious bad guy with guns is a far different scenario than obvious good guys with guns. You guys can twist that and tear me apart for it all you want, but homie with face tats and an AR will likely be asked to exit the vehicle, where as a gentleman of any color that gives off a good guy vibe won't be.

I pull over tons of lawfully armed folks, as long as I set myself up for success, I can be cool as a cucumber throughout the stop because I know I have my bases covered.

You may not see any "OMG" things about his stop, but that's because we have different experiences. Passenger side approaches are safe for highway stops, and allow you to see alot of the inside of the car. They can still be done behind a pillar; offset from the driver, causing the driver to crane his neck to talk to you. This makes it much harder for a suspect to shoot from their seat. If he wanted the driver out of the vehicle, he should've remained at the window, engaging the driver in conversation/running a clearance via radio if possible, until cover arrived. Then, and only then, should he have moved to the driver side and then asked him to exit while the cover officer provided security.

Had he waited for cover, he would likely have survived. Had he been on the driver side when asking the driver to exit he would have likely survived. He got complacent, and complacency kills. In this line of work, we debrief relentlessly and pick apart videos like this all the time. We don't do it to monday morning QB or denigrate the fallen, we do it so we can learn from the incident and get better. The officer made mistakes that cost him his life.

There is no "ordinary stop" if you condition yourself to live with a heightened sense of awareness. Treat everyone with respect and kindness, but never treat any situation as routine or ordinary.

Like I said, it's a hard goddamn balance and even you acknowledge if somebody wants to they can set up on you in ways where you realistically don't have a chance. Maybe there were things Jarrott could have done differently that might have changed things but that's maybe's and might's and he still might have ended up dead.

But thats not how that works. If a boxer gets knocked out because he dropped his hands and absorbed a left hook, we can attribute his loss to dropping his hands. We can say that if he had kept his hands up, he would not have been knocked out by that left hook and would have had a fighting chance to win the match. We don't know if the boxer would have eventually won, but we know that had he kept his hands up, the knockout would not have occurred and the fight would've continued. Thats what we see know. An officer that let his guard down and an opponent who took advantage of that.