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Thread: P226 vs 92FS hammer design

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    P226 vs 92FS hammer design

    I have both a Sig P226 and a Beretta 92FS converted to a G

    The SIG has a hammer that, even in DA mode will not make contact with the rear of the firing pin unless the trigger is being pulled and is all the way to the rear position. I'm not sure about the exact internal workings, but there must be a safety plunger, bar or detent that needs to be depressed in order for the hammer to fall completely. If the trigger is not being pulled, and the gun is resting in DA mode, you cannot bump or barely flick the hammer and cause a round to go off.

    The Beretta is far different. The hammer rests on the rear of the firing pin when the gun is in DA mode. If you barely flick the hammer it is very likely to reach a safety position where it stops and will not fall onto the firing pin. The gun basically remains in DA mode. I cannot get a round to go off by barely flicking the hammer and making it fall the half millimeter onto the firing pin. That's not to say that it still cannot happen though. Maybe I've only tried on string enough primers but I might find a weak primer someday. I can also not directly bump the hammer hard enough to cause a round to go off.

    But still, this beretta trigger mechanism in DA mode has me concerned. Ten years ago I admittedly had a NG in my truck from a 357 lever action rifle. I had a round in the chamber and I eased the hammer home on the live round. I figured revolvers are carried like this all the time, so it was safe. Well, later in my truck I had the muzzle pointing up and but-stock on my center floorboard. I got out of the truck, grabbed the gun by the forend, picked it up and BAM! I later realized that the hammer had drug across the seat and cocked just enough to not go into safety position, but it slipped off the seat and slammed home hard enough to make the round go off. Furthermore, I tested and found that a live round with a closed hammer in that lever action rifle could be set off quite easily. Laying the gun on a bench and bumping the hammer directly did not cause a round to go off, but pointing the gun up, (bullet probably slides more to the rear) bump the hammer with heel of my hand and BAM. So these experiences have me questioning the hammer design on the Beretta.

    Could the Beretta 92 hammer be flicked, slipped or bumped to make a live round go off? I have not read of any AD or ND of the Beretta's. Has anyone else realized this or know of any issues?
    “Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn’t do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines, sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.”
    - Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by matemike View Post

    Could the Beretta 92 hammer be flicked, slipped or bumped to make a live round go off? I have not read of any AD or ND of the Beretta's. Has anyone else realized this or know of any issues?
    No.

    Trigger has to be pulled darn near all the way to the point of firing before the firing pin block lifts out of the way and will allow the firing pin to be moved.

    As long as that firing pin block is down you are not setting off anything with the hammer / firing pin.

    Block is located on top of slide right in front of the rear sight. You can see it function as you pull the trigger towards the rear...

    Cool animation of it doing its thing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvt_BKA7goM
    Last edited by DG23; 04-20-21 at 19:48.

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    Quote Originally Posted by matemike View Post
    I have both a Sig P226 and a Beretta 92FS converted to a G

    Could the Beretta 92 hammer be flicked, slipped or bumped to make a live round go off? I have not read of any AD or ND of the Beretta's. Has anyone else realized this or know of any issues?
    As mentioned, the Beretta and the SIG both have firing pin blocks, unless the trigger is pulled and actively held to the rear, the firing pin is prevented from going forward far enough to fire the gun. The SIG also uses a rebounding hammer that the Beretta does not.

    Your lever-gun likely has a half cock notch but it does not have those features, and most of the revolvers that were designed when lever-guns were cutting edge technology aren't much safer. Depending on the revolver, you could have had the same thing happen. Modernization of the revolver has introduced the transfer bar in some designs and the hammer block in others that allow safe carry of the gun with the hammer down over a live round. Before that design change, it was prudent to load the wheelgun with five rounds and let the hammer rest on the remaining, empty chamber.

    Ruger went through a lot of trouble because they failed to modernize until the 70's and people found out that loading six in an old design was hazardous. They have that sorted out.

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    "The SIG has a hammer that, even in DA mode will not make contact with the rear of the firing pin unless the trigger is being pulled and is all the way to the rear position."

    As pointed out, exactly the same thing may be said about the Beretta. You could even say that the Beretta FP block is safer because it would be obvious if it "stuck" in a position that allows the hammer to reach the FP.

    You are correct, its not safe to carry a lever action rifle with a round in the chamber and the hammer resting on the firing pin. I am somewhat surprised you could fire a round by bumping the hammer with your hand.

    Andy
    Last edited by AndyLate; 04-21-21 at 07:09.

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    I’ve carried M9s off and on for over a decade and at every training session as I have had the armorers emphasized the safety value of the falling block. In DA mode M9s are very safe, basically GI proof. Though the first time you decock one is a little shocking if you’re unfamiliar with how the gun works.

    No offense, but it sounds like you didn’t understand proper procedures for running a lever gun. Chamber empty or half cock are the only ways to safely carry one loaded, in my opinion. It’s an old school mechanism and less forgiving than a lot of other actions.
    OEF / OIR / OFS

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    What you’re noticing on the P226 that the 92FS doesn’t have is the rebounding hammer. That significantly large dead space between the hammer’s resting position and the firing pin. In any case both guns are great, proven designs, carry either with confidence.
    Last edited by El Pistolero; 04-21-21 at 12:17.

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    Thank you folks, I have carried and I do carry both with confidence. But now even more so.

    I recall now (without digging it out of the safe) that my Ruger GP100 has a flat bar that needs to come "up" into proper position, which can only happen if the trigger is pulled and the hammer can actually bang the firing pin via the flat bar.

    I realized shortly after my NG that this feature is not on my lever action rifle.

    I also understand on the Beretta that the firing pin block has to be pressed out of the way for the action to completely do what it does. (Hammer hits a tiny pin that transitions to THE firing pin.) Block has to be out of the way to go Bang. Similar to a G19 how the plunger gets pushed out of the way of the firing pin by the trigger bar.

    Like I said, I carry all with confidence. Always have, but now even more so.

    Thank you all again for the clarification.
    “Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn’t do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines, sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.”
    - Mark Twain

  8. #8
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    FPB are common and SIG and Beretta both have them - and like others cannot fire unless the block is moved out of the the way and this by design - it simply cannot fire as the FP cannot strike the primer. As stated, the trigger has to pretty much go the full length of the pull in order to release the block. The SIG has an additional safety that blocks the hammer - independent of the FPB.

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