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Thread: Weird cycling issue... thoughts?

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by MWAG19919 View Post
    My mistake was relying on a Lyman gauge that actually doesnít mimic a chamber.
    What you have now is not likely the same as YOUR chamber.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by DG23 View Post
    What you have now is not likely the same as YOUR chamber.
    True, but the way the gauge is designed the middle step is the "Chamber Minimum" and the bottom step is the "SAAMI Minimum" for the round, so if I'm between those 2 steps it should chamber in my gun. At least, that's what the directions for the gauge state. The gauge is for .223 and my chamber is 5.56. Without delving into the minutia of .223 vs 5.56x45, I'm pretty confident that a round that passes a .223 chamber gauge will be GTG in a 5.56 chamber.

  3. #103
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    WAIT, WAIT, WAIT! Don't pull those rounds quite yet -- let's see if we can save you some ass-pain.

    If you have Imperial Sizing Die Wax you can size loaded rounds using a body-only sizing die. It won't push back your shoulders and it won't size the necks (which we don't want anyway since you've seated bullets). It just might lengthen your cartridges a tiny bit since the only place for the brass to go is up the die.

    You'll need a simple single stage press and shell holder.

    Once re-sized, wipe off all the wax, check length, load, and shoot.

  4. #104
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    Weird cycling issue... thoughts?

    So the body is sized, allowing you to pass the plunk test, but you werenít gauging if the bolt fell freely into battery.

    What youíve experienced is the problem with mixed brass shot in various chambers.

    This is the most important reason for annealing, such that spring-back is minimized. It may be time to anneal. Itís also a good idea to start sizing in separate steps and trimming differently.

    What I prefer to do is use a universal decapping die, a FL body-only die, a busing neck die with a TiN bushing, then trim with a shoulder indexing trimmer vs an OAL-based trimmer. Then tumble, run a pass through a carbide expander die, and prime/charge/seat second pass through the press.

    I prefer to anneal every firing if I want consistent and reliable ammo.


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    Last edited by mRad; 05-23-21 at 08:44.

  5. #105
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    That will work if he's shooting just one rifle, otherwise he may not bump the shoulder back far enough between different rifles with 5.56 and 223 chambers.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinister View Post
    That will work if he's shooting just one rifle, otherwise he may not bump the shoulder back far enough between different rifles with 5.56 and 223 chambers.
    What about what I said relegates the process to one rifle?


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  7. #107
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    If you're using a neck-only die (like the Redding "S" bushing die that sizes for neck diameter and tension only, vice a neck/shoulder-bump) you're not making allowances for case stretch, and headspace may lengthen depending on different reamers (specifically match, varmint, or mimimum SAAMI vice 5.56.

  8. #108
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    Weird cycling issue... thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by sinister View Post
    If you're using a neck-only die (like the Redding "S" bushing die that sizes for neck diameter and tension only, vice a neck/shoulder-bump) you're not making allowances for case stretch, and headspace may lengthen depending on different reamers (specifically match, varmint, or mimimum SAAMI vice 5.56.
    The shoulder wonít move between the FL size and the neck die much at all, especially if properly annealed.

    Contrary to popular belief, the neck die doesnít set tension like you may think, but rather the expander being pulled back through it. Which is why itís best to not use expanders and to follow up with a expander mandrel second time through the press.


    This is the best method Iíve used after loading for nearing 20 years and running my ammo in at least 20 rifles.

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    Last edited by mRad; 05-23-21 at 12:02.

  9. #109
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    So I finally got around to pulling these rounds in my collet puller, and I made a shocking discovery: it's not the cases or my sizing die(s) that are causing the problem...

    I pulled a couple of the bullets and the cases gauged perfectly (if anything, I should back my sizing die out just a tad, as the cases are gauging below the minimum step on the gauge). It's actually the ogive of the bullet making contact with the gauge.

    I normally seat my bullets to 2.250" in order to fit in a magazine. I ran the loaded rounds through a seater die and seated them to 2.229" (the COL specified by Hornady for 62 gr FMJ) and voila! The rounds now pass the case gauge.

    I realize this technically increases the pressure of the rounds, but the powder charge is 0.4 gr below what Hornady specs as "maximum" for a .223 load, so I plan to correct these rounds using the seater die and move forward. No telling when I'll have time to get to the range and try them out, but I thought I'd give y'all an update.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by MWAG19919 View Post
    So I finally got around to pulling these rounds in my collet puller, and I made a shocking discovery: it's not the cases or my sizing die(s) that are causing the problem...

    I pulled a couple of the bullets and the cases gauged perfectly (if anything, I should back my sizing die out just a tad, as the cases are gauging below the minimum step on the gauge). It's actually the ogive of the bullet making contact with the gauge.

    I normally seat my bullets to 2.250" in order to fit in a magazine. I ran the loaded rounds through a seater die and seated them to 2.229" (the COL specified by Hornady for 62 gr FMJ) and voila! The rounds now pass the case gauge.

    I realize this technically increases the pressure of the rounds, but the powder charge is 0.4 gr below what Hornady specs as "maximum" for a .223 load, so I plan to correct these rounds using the seater die and move forward. No telling when I'll have time to get to the range and try them out, but I thought I'd give y'all an update.
    The gauge is NOT your chamber.

    Have you checked any to see if any that you think you 'fixed' actually fit your chamber?

    Resizing your cases to fit a generic case gauge is where your problems started and why they will likely continue.

    You 'could' buy one of these: https://www.hornady.com/headspace-bushings#!/
    and know for certain what is going on with the headspace in YOUR particular barrel. Could also be used to tell you what the gauge you have is set up at using a piece of fired brass and measuring what it reads as you size it down to 'fit' between the steps.

    I would bet money that as you seated those rounds deeper you pushed your shoulder back which is why the rounds seem to 'fit' now. Unless you have a seriously oddball chamber there is no darn way that the ogive of a 62 grain Hornady bullet was hitting anything inside your actual chamber. On most 5.56 chambers that bullet would fall out of the case before coming close to hitting any sort of lands. You sure as hell are not coming close to the lands if the bullets still fit in a regular magazine.

    What they do or how they fit in the gauge you have means nothing. The chamber in your barrel is what matters...

    You would be better served going forward if you tossed your case gauge in the trash and learned how to measure your actual chambers (with the Hornady tool I linked you to above) and set your dies up according to those measurements. Your case gauge not jiving with the actual chamber in your barrel is why you are where you are now and having problems.

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